TheBlackHand

Here is the final outcome of the battle. How the F*CK is this NOT a draw? ...as if I needed another nail in the coffin. I live in St. Louis. Beware of falling CM jewel cases. Out the window it goes...

I just went through an interesting excercise with the wasp. Rene, the zerstorer of my buildings in those last couple of screens, sent me a scenario involving a wasp and a couple of German squads. Here's a screenshot to give an idea of the setup. Here's a cut & paste of our Email. This was what I had wanted to do during the game in question. I assumed the wasp would fire as it switched gears to reverse. This didn't happen. Appearently it won't happen. I've run through the scenario you've set up here a number of times. I've given the wasp a move order to the bottom of the hill, well within range of the Germans, followed by a reverse order back up the hill. I never gave a target order, assuming the target was obvious. It WAS obvious. However, the wasp never would fire. I DO NOT understand this. Where is the AI? A wasp doesn't need to be stopped in order to fire, does it? I'm almost certain I've seen them fire on the move. Then again, it seems an unlikely idea. Still, why won't a wasp stop to fire on an obvious target, while carrying out it's move orders? I don't know. If I drive the wasp to the crest of the hill & park it in full veiw of the German squad IT WILL NOT FIRE. The wasp just sits there. At first I thought this might be a LOS problem or an inability to bring the weapon to bear from the angle of the hill. Not so. When I order the wasp to fire from the same position, it fires. When I give the wasp a target order along with a series of move orders. THEN the wasp will fire...but only if the target is within sight. My wasps will not fire on their own initiative. This presents a problem. http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=026980 During the battle that provoked this discussion I KNEW the location that I wanted the wasp to fire on. It was the trees to the rear of the German position. Well out of the way of my troops who were also in the area. From the wasps starting point, the area that I wanted him to fire on was out of LOS. Nevertheless, it was under observation by a command team. I KNEW that's where the Germans were..and that's where they were reinforcing. If I were shouting in the wasp's ear I would've told him to open up on the rear of the long axis of trees to his direct front once he crested the hill and rounded the trees. The game should allow for me to make those sorts of orders. The game should allow for mid-move pause orders. The manual states that this is dissallowed due to the "unrealistic" and "micro-management" aspect. OK, so I assume the AI will take up the slack by firing on an obvious, targetable threat. As I recall, that last tidbit is ALSO in the manual. It is unrealistic that I cannot give my men orders that I would certainly have given on the field. It is unrealistic that a weapon as decisive as the wasp wouldn't fire when and where it was needed most. A pause order, in between the move and reverse orders would have allowed my wasp to obtain the target that I WANTED him to fire on. The target that I would have ORDERED him to fire on...regardless of whether it was under direct LOS at the time. We KNEW thats where the Germans were. That's WHERE I wanted the wasp to "shoot & scoot". Based on the scenario's that you've sent along, it appears that a wasp won't fire on it's own initiative during a move order...unless he's been given a target. So, am I just way out on a limb here? Is it just my bad luck? Am I asking too much? Should I take up golf? Right now I'm ready to take a 9 iron to the CM CD...if not the entire PC! [ May 19, 2003, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: TheBlackHand ]

Further proof that I have THE worst luck in the Combat Mission world. A lone panzershreck, working with only one man, down to his last round, under fire from three squads and a Jumbo Sherman from ninety yards. He kills the Jumbo. Thus killing my interest in being the butt of everyone else's good luck. I quit.

RM, yep, the WASP war has turned into a genuine fight. Given my initial losses I wasn't expecting to hold...but the PIAT's really saved the day. I'm happy to get out of that one with anything close to a draw. I'm learning that sound tactis aren't all there is to playing CM well. You need to know the game limitations and be able to anticipate AI behavior (or not). Many of these lessons can only be learned the hard way. Of course, it helps to have a little luck on your side. Something I seem to have little of. Dandelion, anyone who's played me will tell you that I'm anything but graceful. I'm a whiny beotch much of the time, but this is only because I think...or type...out loud. My opponents are the graceful one's for putting up with me! Nevertheless, I'm no sore loser & I've yet to meet one. I respect a well played game and an honest player, regardless of whether I do well or not. So far everyone I've played has been "graceful", as you say. This is a good thing. Then again, I havent played Dorosh yet. (Nor will I ever.) Bure was...er...not fun. The equipment given to the Germans might have been historically correct, but it was wayy out of place for that map. What were the trucks for, if not to merely get in the way? A Jagdpanzer? On a tiny, closed-in, urban map? That thing could hardly turn a half-circle before the barrel was knocking over buildings, or taking a PIAT up the butt. Ehhh...? I just didn't get it, but nobody ever said war was supposed to be "fun"?

I like the Out-of-Command and Team-Skill arguments. I can buy those, to a point. The LOS argument was a non-factor, IMO. At least, it should've been a non-factor. As I stated prior, this particular tank had been under observation (I assume) by the schreck team for a couple of turns prior to his moving into the arc. The team was never hidden. The team had LOS to that tank the whole time. I assumed (wrongly?) that the AI was keeping up with my assumptions by concentrating on the movements of that tank...especially THAT tank. If I had been a lowly Schutz or a commanding Leutnant I'D have had my eye on THAT tank too! The teams orders and mission were clear. The target might have passed through sun glare as it passed through the arc. However, it was not in the glare as it stopped, then reversed, then stopped again. From thirty-five yards the target should've been as clear as the orders and the mission. The team just sucked the big one...and bit the big one...and my luck just blows. The flag is now in dispute. My guys are caught in the very type of crossfire that I had hoped to avoid. If I lose the flag, I'm hanging the loss on this complete break-down in team performance.

Dandelion, I appreciate the offer...but I'm swearing off CM for awhile. These last few battles have just been real morale killers. If/when I decide to give it another shot I'll look you up. Here's a final screen of the above battle. ELEVEN of my occupied buildings were destroyed by a single 4.5 inch mortar battery and a couple of tanks. I guess Murphy's Law was in full effect. I gave up. I give up.

Welp, here's the outcome of this fiasco. Taking his fifth and final shot (or was it fourth?) from 35 yards. Of course, he missed. No "gameyness" going on here. NzN is a good guy and a good opponent. If the tank is on the map-edge it's only because he hasn't really got anywhere to go. I would be curious to know if the edge does have anything to do with missing the broadside of a freeking tank from thirty yards. The schreck team was well "rested", not "tired". He is NOT looking directly into the sun. As I had stated, the tank had been under observation for a couple of turns prior to his move into the arc. The tank DEFINATELY moved through the arc. The schreck team should've been well prepared and ready to fire. They just effin sat there. When they did finally fire, after having to be ordered to do so, they embarrased themselves and the entire German Army. Not to mention, cost the lives of many comrades. The shreck actually fired three or four shots while taking NO FIRE at all, therefore, there was nothing but his own shaky nerves to ef-up the sight picture. And what fine sight picture it should've been...from thirty facking yards! There is quite frankly no good excuse for why this engagement has turned out the way it has. Although, I like the dialouge! I'll chalk it up to faulty AI/game mechanics and bad luck. Looks like I just got screwed...again. [ May 14, 2003, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: TheBlackHand ]

The T-34 is in fear of a Tiger that is also covering (sleepily and blindly it seems) the gap with a (useless?) "Cover Armor" command and clear LOS. That is why he's making for the map edge. The cover arc is on a flat plain. The T-34 had been in plain view of the schreck for a couple of turns prior to his driving through the arc. He drove across the arc for a distance of twenty-five yards, at least, not to mention stotpping within the arc, then reversing out of it. I didn't extend the arc to the full map edge because I figured anything that moved across the first portion of the arc would certainly have been targeted by the time it reached the edge. Surely, I assumed, the AI would direct my shcreck to target a tank THIS close within the arc! The tank is larger than life. This probably accounts for is being out of the arc on the final screenshot. However, the tank IS at thirty to thirty-five yards. I know this because of the target line, which I was forced to assign. A tank should be easily targeted at that range, glare or no glare, arc, or no arc, sleepy-head or wide-awake. The tank DID drive through the arc, at which point he should have been targeted by my schreck, therefore canceling the arc until either the schreck or the T-34 were dead. I like the sun argument. However, it still doesn't wash with me. In addition, morning coffee or no morning coffee, if the threat of a T-34 bearing down on you doesn't serve to wake your ass up...then you're damn near dead to start with. If not, you will soon be. Barring a miracle, this schrecker is dead on the next turn. The T-34 is now pouring flanking fire into my position around the flag. The battle could be lost because of this ef-up. BooHooHoo... [ May 14, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: TheBlackHand ]

Here's proof that Wasp's do work as advertised...while under fire. The secret? Button up. Unfortunately, I was on the wrong end of this exchange. Fortunately, I brought Panzerschrecks. Unfortunately, they didn't arrive until the town was in flames. To add insult to injury, the town began to explode as well as burn. This battle has been a comedy of errors, but a good learning experience.

I took great pains to sneak this schreck into position. His defense of the 100yd gap is vital to my defense of the flag. I give the schreck a "Cover Armor" order with a 100yd radius. This is what happens: My opponent drives a T-34 RIGHT THROUGH the arc, to within thirty yards of my schreck AND PARKS!?!?! The gaddamn tank stops, turns broadside to my schreck at about thirty yards, then reverses to a distance of about thirty-five yards. After the reverse he was out of the arc. That doesn't explain my shcreck's failure to act when the tank was within the arc and WELL within range of a killing shot. Especially as the tank stopped, went, sideways and reversed. What possible excuse is there for this failure? I actually had to order the schreck to fire on the tank after a full turn had gone by. When the schreck did finally fire...he took four shots from thirty-five yards with only two hits. Now he is being shot at by the tank and will most-likely die. Not only is this schreck a complete idiot, he is a horrible shot. I am ready to throw this game out the window.

Figures, I buy a Wasp for a battle and it won't fire a f*cking shot. The very next battle I face two Wasp's and he practically wipes me off the map with them. Enough to make a guy wanna take up golf.

Thanks for the responses! I was half expecting to get...flamed. Yes, it has been a very frustrating episode. My upstairs neighbor must think I'm a madman the way I scream at the PC sometimes. This WASP definately gave me a fit! (I've actually explained these late-night shout fits to my neighbor. She thinks its funny...and she probably thinks I'm funny too. In the head.) I'm learning the hard way how to give Move, Pause, Shoot and Reverse commands in CMBO. I'm also really appreciating the new command options in CMBB. I had a couple of platoons guarding my right flank. Obviously, I wasn't expecting much of a push from that direction...but sure enough, that's where they showed up! I moved the WASP over from the middle in order to help out. I believe that if I'd have had a German HT I wouldn't have had these problems. I can understand how & why the WASP might've bugged out after the second assualt. Afterall, he lost his buddy. However, IMO, he should've fired on the first assault. My fault for not plotting his moves. I guess I figured the AI would be bright enough to figure it out. Doh! I also feel that he should've provided support from his final position, despite having lost a crewman. I had him positioned to fire on the only avenue of approach that the Germans could take. In fact, I wanted to flame that avenue long before they got there in order to block the appproach. It seems to me that the AI should be able to simulate the remaining crewman taking over the trigger. Granted, the vehicle would be immobile, but it would still be a useful and deadly weapon. Not being fully aware of how a WASP actually works, I dont' know if the latter is a legitimate possibility. Still, soldiers at war will find a way to fight. The AI should model that. Which brings me to another question that I've asked myself. Will infantry units in CM scrounge for weapons and ammo when thiers are broken or low. Also, if a AT/MG/AT Gun team is knocked out but the weapon is intact, will other infantry units pick up the weapon and use it? If not, this SHOULD be an option written into the next game. I always enjoyed the scrounging that went on in Close Combat. In fact, there were a number of times where it saved my skin! If the zook or MG team was killed and the enemy was bearing down, I'd move another team onto the destroyed position. Occaisionally, someone would pick up the weapon and keep firing. [ May 09, 2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: TheBlackHand ]

I've just recently started playing online. I'm a vet of about ten battles. I've never played as the Brits or Canucks until now. I'm playing a battle as the Canadians. I've had good success using German flame tracks so I figured I'd give the WASP a try. I'm not impressed at all. In fact, I'm pi$$ed! I have a few questions. Hopefully they're not stupid...but I'm asking anyway. I had a platoon fighting off a German platoon in a copse of trees. He was also rushing another couple of squads across a field and into the fight. The combatants were separated enough that I figured I could move my WASP up around the copse and put the flame to his tail end & advancing troups. I was pretty certain that he didn't have any AT threats close enought to put the WASP in danger, otherwise I'd have never ordered him up. There were another couple of German platoons advancing across a field about 150-200 yards away. I figured he'd take fire from them...but not enough to knock him out or dissuade him from his orders. Well, I gave him a Move-Hunt-Reverse order. (I may not have given the "hunt"...not sure it was available...but it's what I wanted him to do.) I figured he would move around the corner...advance about ten yards...aquire teh OBVIOUS targets...fire em up...then reverse. That didn't happen. What happened was, he moved up...waved at all the Germans...and backed off. Never fired a shot. He took fire but wasn't shocked. He just did NOTHING. So, I was pretty pissed about that. My platoon was nearly dead. I figured I'd give the idiot WASP a clear order to fire. Maybe the Move-Reverse order screwed him up. This time I rolled him around the copse and pointed him straight at the dozens of Germans who now inhabited the trees just thirty yards ahead. So I rolled him around there. He came under some intense fire...but he never returned any. About halfway into the turn he got "shocked" and backed away. Not feeling lucky enough for a third try I figured I'd roll him into cover and let him come to his senses. He got his act together...but now I had NO FIRE COMMAND AT ALL?! Having never actually given him a fire command, I'm wondering if it was ever there to start with...considering he failed to fire TWICE. By this time the Germans had moved into the woods were I was hiding a platoon and the WASP. If the WASP failed me again the flank was lost. I'd already lost a flag because of this idiots failure to fire. Sure enough, here come the Germans. Sure enough, I can't target them and the AI won't target them either. At this time the WASP was not under any serious fire. The crew had one injured man. There were never any equipment malfunction messages. The damn thing just wouldn't shoot. I lost the flag and the flank. I'm still holding the last two flags...but who knows for how long...with no help from the WASP. So, what gives? Is this a common thing with these WASPS? Like I said, I've never had much trouble using German flame tracks. Is there something about the WASP, is it just me, or is my game messed up?

I've noticed in the last two online games that Soviet DP Teams are lebeled as "Crews". Shouldn't they be called "MG Teams" or even "DP Team" ie. a light MG? Of the last two games I've played against the same opponent I've only seen Maxim's labeled as a definate "MG Team". The "Crew" label has caused me big problems. I had disabled two of his vehicles. He had two dismounted crews running around. The game was telling me he had two "Crews" guarding a hard fought flag. I thought it was a bit strange that they were shooting back with what looked and sounded like a MG...but the game was telling me "Crew"...so I figured he was down to his last & promptly launched an assault. Guess what? Cut to pieces. Only after the battle was over were these teams identified as DP teams. I narrowly lost the battle. There is a good chance that had I known these were MACHINE GUN crews and not dismounted, lightly armed vehicle crews...I would have rethought my tactics and possibly won. Now were playing another game, me German, he Russian. Again, he has two of what appear to be DP teams...which are labled "Crew(?)". I have yet to disable any of his vehicles or guns so I know there's no crews running around. Now that I know there's a problem I'm certainly not going to attack until these "Crews" are dead or fully suppresed. So, if I'm pretty certain that these are MG teams...how come the game isn't labeling them as such? Is this a bug? I can get a screenshot if neccesary.

So far I've only experienced one type of game crash, but it's about to make me toss the whole thing altogether. My game hangs up either in the "Computer player thinking" stage or when the little blue bar is running across the bottom of the screen. When this happens I'm sent back to the desktop when I press a key. I've probably only played one or two battles where this did not occur. Usually it happens every other turn. Lately its been happening every turn. I'll get a few turns into a battle, then it's start hanging. So, I go to the desktop, start the game again, load the turn, hit "go" and cross my fingers. If it hangs on the same turn, I'll try restarting the game a time or two and then I can usually get the turn to play...but it' hangs on the next one and I've got to start allfreekingoveragain. What could the problem be? Here's my system specs: AMDk6-2/450 128m memory Creative Labs SB64 Voodoo3000 DX7.0a Game version is 4.05 I've got all the current drivers. Help me somebody pleeez...otherwise, make me an offer cause I'm selling the game.

The game no longer runs on my system. It worked for about a week. The problems began with the blinking pixel/fog whiteout problem. I think that I've fixed that since it hasn't happened in a few days. BUT, now the whole thing just locks up completely after about two minutes of play. The error I got last night was: Fatal exception at: 0028:C0035A63 in VXO IFSMGR(01) + 00002977. I have no freking idea what this means, but it's happened twice. That is, the error message has appeared twice, the other five or six crashes were just straight freeze-ups. If I knew how to change the BIOS AGP settings I'd give it a try....but I'm afraid I'll just explode the whole computer. I'm running DX7a and I've installed my video card drivers AFTER doing the DirectX upgrade. I've also uninstalled/reinstalled the game. No dice. Here's my specs: Combat Mission 1.02, patched to 1.03 Windows 98 AMD K6II 3D 450 128mb Ram Voodoo 3 3000 8.5 gig HD 650+ cache/345mb free Creative Labs AWE64 Gold My DX diagnostic says that I'm running 7.0 but I know I Dl'd 7.0a. I thought it installed correctly. That's weird. Anyway, it's a real bummer not to be able to play the game anymore, especially since I was really looking forward to it and REALLY getting into playing it. O'well. Help me Obi Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope. OK, I figured out how to change the AGP stuff. It still aint working. Argh! OK, two hours later. I've reinstalled yet again. This time I left the patch out and everythings hunky dory. I played a 15 turn battle straight through, no lockups and no whiteout. So, it appears there's a problem with the patch. At least, on my system it's no good. [This message has been edited by TheBlackHand (edited 07-29-2000).] [This message has been edited by TheBlackHand (edited 07-29-2000).]

As I understand it there was a reprisal killing by U.S. troops of 30+ Germans at Chenogne. I don't know the specifics right off the top of my head, but I thought it interesting that we never hear about this. Personally, I think the Malmedy massacre was an itchy trigger finger mistake that snowballed into a full-fledged massacre. From what I understand, shots were fired at some escaping US prisoners...and things got out of hand, to say the least. I'd still call it a war crime, same as any other though. At some point cooler heads should have prevailed...and they didn't. However, I don't think it was premeditated, as was the case at Chenogne. ------------------