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Warren Peace

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Posts posted by Warren Peace

  1. I thought the book was excellent as well. I think you guys are a little tough on Doubler. His conclusion is that the American's improved tactically throughout the campaign and that American improvement in tactics was primarily because of the flow of information from the bottom to the top. (The hedgerow cutting tanks in Normandy being the best example).

    He never says anywhere that American tactics won the war or that we were better than the Germans. He just says we got better as the campaign continued.

    If anything the weakness in the book is that there is no comparison with German or British troops in comparison.

  2. Steve,

    Thanks for setting me straight about the cupholder. It just goes to show you how us non-programmer types don't really understand much about programming.

    Since you are soliciting input, I would like to tell you another AI related feature that I would like to see in CMx2. It would be interesting if the human player could put part of his command under AI control. For example, In a battalian size battle, I could take control of one company and the AI could take control the other two or three. Of course to make this work one would need to be able to assign global commands to the AI sub-formations like "Company 1 attack toward objective A" or "Company 2 Defend objective B".

    Now the problem with this approach is that I don't really understand how the current AI works. I understand that there is an operational AI, but does it have any relationship to actual unit formations, or does it simply direct each unit individually based on the strategic AI's overall plan? Based on watching the AI play it seems likely it is the latter.

  3. I tend to agree with Rollstoy. The first two points really have to do with decreasing the human, not improving the AI. I also agree that the third point will help pre-made scenarios. However, to use Steve's terminology I would call point #3 a "cupholder" feature.

    As I see it, we have to analyze what the AI currently does well and what it does not do well.

    On the well side, the AI does use terrain well. (Infantry will always approach using maximum cover).

    It does a good job of recognizing objective flags

    On the negative side.

    1) Does not use elevation

    2) Poor coordination of attack (armor always goes first).

    3) Does not maintain command lines.

    4) Counter attacks too much when on defense (leaves fox-holes)

    5) Poor use of Artillery.

    6) Uses on-board mortars only in direct fire mode.

    7) Has no concept of time (doesn't matter to AI the length of the scenario)

    8) Has no concept of "fire-base" for heavy weapons

    I know that making the AI better is difficult. However, I am dissapointed that none of these issues appear to be on the agenda

  4. Steve:

    It seems to me that you are essentially saying "The AI is as good as its going to get and that is that."

    I'm kind of surprised by this as on just about all other issues you guys have constantly improved the game. I must admit it sounds kind of defeatest to me.

    Based on your posts It sounds like in the early development of CMBO you spent a lot of time developing the AI, found it was a time sink with diminishing returns, and decided your time would be best spent elsewhere.

    From a business perspective this sounds like a reasonable move. However, this was several years ago, and I think it would not a terrible idea to visit the AI again just to see if there might be some relatively simple ideas that might be implemented. As a scientist, I have found that sometimes revisiting issues after several years can pay off big, especially if new thinking is brought to bare. I urge you to at least spend a little time considering some of the ideas brought up here.

    Finally, perhaps you could consider the idea of optional AI cheats to improve AI balance. SPecifically, how about an option where the AI plays with a different FOW level then the human player? This might help make up for some of the deficiency in the operational or statagic AI. I would think this could be easily implemented.

    Warren

  5. I'd like to chime in here. I am somewhat surprised at Steve's tone and attitude. People would like a more challenging computer opponent. This is clearly the case. Based on my experience, the AI has not been significantly improved in the two and soon to be three CM games. With a engine re-write in the works, it seems like the right time to try and make it better.

    Also, I think it important that we define what we mean by the AI. I am NOT referring to the Tactical AI. It is the strategic and operational AI I am referring to. Somehow the AI needs to move units in a more coordinated manner. In open environments (long LOS) armor needs to lead, in restricted LOS infantry should lead. On the defense, units need to stay in Fox holes and not counter attack whenever a flag is taken.

    I think spending a bit of time considering improvements in the AI would be well worth it.

    Warren

  6. Warren,

    unfortunately I do not have the number - I am also not sure if anyone has it, because you are looking at the period of build-up in this time. I.e. at best you end up with an average. Do the figures you have posted include sick/accident cases?

    I found the numbers here

    http://www.britannica.com/normandy/week5/casualties01a.html

    I assume they include all casualties (combat + non-combat) but I am not certain.

    A couple of additional points.

    1) In looking over Glant'z table in WHen Titans Clashed it is apparent that the Berlin Operation was no more "bloody" then other Soviet Offensive Operations in the last year of the war. For example the Belorussion Offensive (June 23-August29) had a casualty rate of 31.8%. THe East Pomerania Offensive (Feb10-April4) had a rate of 24%. Thus the Soviets were not squemish about casualties.

    2) Now how do they compare to the West? Were the Soviets tactically inferior? According to Glantz (When Titans Clashed) the Soviet's suffered a total of 6,082,189 casualties (battle+non-battle) out of an average force size of 6,569,095 (92.6% casualty rate) for the last half of 1944 and the first half of 1945. Using the table in Doubler's book (Closing with the enemy) the equivelent number for the USA would be 764,095. The US ground force in Europe on VE day totaled about 1.4 million. Thus the equivelent number would be about a 55% casualty rate although this must be low because the average through the entire period was undoubtaly less than 1.4 million. For the sake of arguement lets assume the average was closer ot 1.0 million. Then the equivelent number would be about 76% casualty. This modest difference probably reflected two factors. First, American commanders undoubtably placed a higher premium on thier troops lives, and (2) the Germans may indeed have fought harder against the SOviets (although I think the latter is fictional difference based on my readings).

    My take is that both Nev and you are correct. The Soviets were by no means tactical idiots, but they were willing to take casualties at higher rates then the USA to achieve their objectives.

    Warren

  7. This is an interesting discussion. I think you guys are being harsh to Nev, even if he is in the Military smile.gif .

    In my opinion the 17.5% rate is very high for several reasons. Most importantly, this is the rate for an entire Front, not a platoon, company or even Division! When looking at comparable casualty rates for US Divisions in high intensitiy periods like Nornandy or the Bulge the total rates are almost never this high. For US forces at the Bulge they suffered 80,000 casulaties out of 600,000 engaged (13.5%). This is for a 36 day battle and keep in mind that about 25,000 causulties occured in the first three days with the elimination of the two infantry divisions (28th and 106th). Thus the rate for two weeks would be significantly lower.

    Secondly, this number is increably high given the the overwhelming Soviet advantage in troops, tanks, artillery and air. At the Bulge there were roughly equal numbers of Americans and Germans. If I were Stalin I would have expected better.

    Warren

  8. 1) I get tired at the start of a quick battle having all my guys simply lined up in the back row. The first thing I normally due is try and organize them by platoon and then set them up on a reasonable platoon formation. I'd like to see this automated in the set-up for a human player and to have some hot keys for "standard" platoon formations.

    2) Similarly when reinforcements arrive they are all jumbled together with many out of command of their HQ.s.

    3) Multiple way points for group moves. (I realize this has already been discussed, but I think this would be an improvement.)

    4) A "follow" command so that units will follow each other down a road.

    5) Improvement in AI . Perhaps some tweaking in the editor to control "aggressiveness".

    4)

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