Bigdog

You are right Mr Fox, long day I am sorry Gentlemen for my rant . Sadly its more than just a quibble it go's to the hart of the game. I pulled the bible of CM my manual Page 108 "Quick Battles Scenarios are randomly generated battles following the parameters set play player". In a Meeting Engagement should not both players have the same pool of force to draw from. its seems so simple. BTS please end the pain? Big Dog

Jeeeeeeeeeezzzzz go to work and 6 pages of nothing constructive has happened. Slapy can you put a sock in the this OT crap and stick to freaking point . And Cav you make no points at all. Why did the Axis take a full 1/3 point hit in QB Combined Arms, Meeting Engagement? That's what I asked and thats what I wanna know. Its not important why I want = armor points, its not important why Allied players want a 1/3 more armor points Lets make it fair that's all. I want no more no less, the same points both sides. Not 1 of you trolls have looked the examples I shown and said hey that's fair 5 Panthers V 5 M4E3 76 E8 & 5 M18 this is fair? That's 2 to 1 brother. Can all this other BS & stick to the point. Big Dog [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 01-17-2001).]

I am sorry it is about handy capping, its not about balance. You do a setup in QB and tell its fair Big Dog

Cav No its not Combined Arms give's a well balanced force not 1 type of force can win you the engagement. Armor you can spend all your points on AFV. Even when I play Armor-o-Armor I have an agreement with my opponent that we spend no more than 2/3 of points on armor so that there is some support to go with the armor. Combined Arms is about balance not handy capping either side. Big Dog [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 01-17-2001).]

That's what talking about thanks Jeff, It hurts the game more than it helps. Odd mixes of forces is for caned battles. Not QBs Combined Arms Meeting Engagements. If the point value is the same its up the each player how he spends them. Not starting out how to counter the handy cap you have been stuck with. It simple really. BTS? Big Dog

Cav That's the point the QB Combined Arms, Meeting Engagement is the most balanced battle in CM. Perfect for a mano o mano battle. So both sides should have the same points per category not a 3 to2 point bump for allied armor. Big Dog

Slapdragon you miss the point. we are talking about a balanced battle. Not how the Axis has to adjust to eek out a win under the courant armor allotment. In the smaller point battles it will not matter as much but when move up to the 2000pts + games the odds are will favor the Allies more. Look at earlier post for some examples. Another point I would like to make, is the Allies now have luxury ok buying Infantry support as in M4 105s or M8s. But the Axis has spend his last dime in points anti AFV armor. Big Dog

von Luke don't go there . Henri has got the point. If we go purely on historic bases, we mite as well just play as allied against AI because the QB Combined Arms (the benchmark of a balanced battle) against human becomes none competitive. When CM2 comes out will the QBs armor pts be like 3 to 1 or even 4 to 1 Russian to German because that's the way it was? Well that sounds fun . I love CM like all of you here. I enjoy caned battles but find them not well balanced for human to human games, so that leaves the QB for a fair non gamy small unit engagements, mano o mano. If the Axis armor cost is to low adjust the cost per unit (witch if it is it only some not all across the board and not by very much). Cav for a yuk yuk try a large battle 5000pt Combined Arms Meeting Engagement. 5 Panthers Vrs 5 M4E376 E8 & 5 M18 ohhh I will just make it with SPW 251/9, PSW 234/2 (Pumas) PSW/3 . Now instaed of maybe 2 pumas in 2000pt game you will see 4 seems we will moving further away from historical battle's. At 1/3 Allied armor point bump it effects playability of CM in the human to human battles, witch I think is the best part of CM. Big Dog

Polar I think you missed the point. What I am taking about is balanced QB, so both side have even chance to win the battle. I am not talking about the full force of the Allied Nations against Germany I am talking about non Gamy small unit engagements. Maybe you could respond to the hard numbers I produced from a set up from a 2000pts QB? So if I have say 2 Panthers, and US has 2 M4E8 & 2 M18 it seems to that if I were the Allied player it would not be to hard at these odds of 2 to 1 to flank my Panthers. Or even if I go head to head chance's are that the Panthers are dead. That's what I am talking about, not weather or not the Germans are eating French cheese. Big Dog

Well I knew this would open up a discussion. I see a lot of good points brought up. But I think since QBs are used primarily for PBEM or TCP games, it should be a bench mark of = forces. Now I know about all the arguments about the German armor advantage. But as I said, a full 1/3 Allied point bump is to much, and it make's for a non competitive battle. With the range's that CM armor engages the gun an armor are nor as important (baring Tigers, Jagdpanther, Jumbos & M26). You tell me if this sounds right? 2000pts QB Combined Arms Meeting Engagement Axis 2 PNZR IVJ = 234pts 2 Hetzers = 166pts Total 400pts Allies 2 M4 75 = 234pts 1M4A1 76 = 156pts 2 M10 = 206pts Total 596pts Or Axis 2 Panther VG Late = 398pts Allies 2 M4A3 76 E8 = 346pts 2 M18 (1vet) = 246pts Total 592pts Come on now? It will be a long day for the German commander under these conditions. Big Dog [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 01-16-2001).]

Thanks Ben your the man it was in default bumped it up to 5000k Big Dog

I know this must have come up but why is Axis handicapped 1/3pts in a QB such I just did a set up on QB 2000pts Meeting Engagement Combined Arms Axis=400pts, Allies=600pts that's like a a full 1/3 handy cap? Please don't start a flame war on this post, just asking. It just seems to to be a bit much huh? Thanks Big Dog [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 01-15-2001).]

Strange thing has started I got a Mac G4 500 I cant play in 1.1. I can play a PBEM converted but i tried to start up a new game and its a no go (typed 1 error) any ideas? Thanks Big Dog [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 01-15-2001).]

What game are you playing Jumbo? 4000=6000 You should play using Fionn Kelly's Short 75 or Panther 76 rule. If you check out how infantry points are you will see that a company of US comes with Zooks & Motors, while as German's don't, you have to purchase your support separately and a German squad has 9 men & a US has 12. Its not that big of a difference. Now I play as Axis mostly and I have lost and I have won. It has more to with tactics than the points, I make some bad moves I lose. My opponent makes some bad moves he loses. Work on tactics, that's what wins games. Big Dog

M. Bates There is big deference from have PC problems or real life problems and telling your opponent that you need to put the game on hold until a time when the game can resume. That is the polite sportsman thing to do. NOT just stop sending turns and not responding to e-mails inquiring why the game has come to a grinding stop. We all have real life things going on and our CM time is limited, so when you hit turn 15 in a 30 turn game, and your opponents has dropped off the face of the earth without word 1. I think a list of dead beats is a good thing so some other CM player with limited CM time will not waste his or her (for miss kitty) time playing a PBEM Dead Beat. Big Dog [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 12-30-2000).]

I kinda like ther PBEM Dead Beat Black List, I could add a couple names . One time I had a 30 turn game go 3 months. And on the last turn he would not send the last freakin turn what a pisser. A least it was a ladder game and i was awarded a win and 3 weeks later I got my last turn . I think that's what's great about ladders. Players show some commitment by joining in the 1st place & there is a bit of accountably from the players Big Dog [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 12-30-2000).]

Ruggad Defense http://www.Rugged-Defense.nl/cm/cm.tm Big Dog Opps [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 12-24-2000).]

Try Rugged Defense Ladder Cyberfox has done a great job and there are lots of opponents at all levels. http://www.Rugged-Defense.nl/cm/cm.htm Big Dog I will get this URL right someday [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 12-24-2000).] [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 12-24-2000).] [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 12-24-2000).]

I am with the Jagdpanther with its sloping armor & 88mm it is a pretty tuff nut to crack. Just watch your self from getting flanked even a Greyhound can kill you from the rear. And the paired armor thing is great advice. Now go and kick your dad's butt Big Dog

40 Dude btw my wife hate's CM calls it that F#$%^*g game Big Dog

Go to the RDCM Board @ http://pub37.ezboard.com/bruggeddefense13142 I encouraged all RD ladder member's to use the board to set up games & general topic discussion Big Dog [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 12-12-2000).] [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 12-12-2000).]

I think the key word is "blind" . I think there is nothing wrong with QB or 3rd party "blind" scenarios (there is that word again ). It is very hard to find a well balanced scenario. Just my 2¢ And Trooper you kicked my butt fair & square <Salute> Big Dog

I have 21" Sony G500 it takes a time little getting used to the size, but when you do you wont go back. BTW the Sonys screen is flat so no fish bowling I like. Big Dog

RD always has a lot of games going, and you can find opponents at all levels of ability. <<< Salutes Cyberfox >>> Big Dog [This message has been edited by Bigdog (edited 11-11-2000).]

STUIII great bang for the buck or Hetzer Big Dog