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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by guachi: Nipolit. Jason - does this make me a grognard?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It makes you something. Just dont turn from being a guachi to a gowannabe. Lewis

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Clinton: > I SURELY hope you were NOT referring to me. If so, you are mistaken. Gee, I stand corrected. Your skills in software development and project management way over-shadow my mere 10 years. Let me know when your book comes out, your firm goes public and you are on the Letterman Show so I can watch. I'm gone...if I want this I could just respond to one of Fionn's posts! Just kidding Fionn! ) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Scott Sorry I wasn't referring to you. I am not sure what you are posting about really. Oh I get it .. you are from Texas arent you? Texans don't need anyone to have a conversation for those of you that don't know. This kind of makes sense now. Lewis PS Was this guy on TV or something? He really lost me. Whats he mean "I'm gone?" I bet he wrangles snakes and speaks in tounges too.

Didnt the germans also have other grenades made out of some workable explosive material? They directly machined the explosive I mean. Couldnt they also throw the rifle grenade by hand? Are these weapons not to be represented? Inquiring minds want to know.. Lewis

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moon: Username - who says that BTS doesn't have a very exact idea of when the game is going to be released? If (and when) they want to tell you or not is a whole different matter... [This message has been edited by Moon (edited 03-24-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well I am unemployed right now. If the game were to be released in the fall, then I would seek employment till then. But here I am waiting for an undetermined amount of time collecting unemployment checks and wondering "When is it going to come out already?". Makes you think doesnt it? Lewis

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goanna: Hopefully, you get as much satisfaction out of this effort as your work in discussing U238 shells. {Are Depleted Uranium shells U238 or U235?} My advice is to ignore Lewis. Oh, and if you don't like me using your name, Lewis, I suggest you change it. I'm sure several here can provide suggestions. Where's Peng when i need him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I dont mind you using my name perhaps once in a post but the way you end sentances with it sounds..how can I say this?..very effeminate. Well you sound like this gay guy I used to know anyway. You married or ever had a girlfriend? Is Peng your lover? Why do you need him? So "Gowannabe a rat", get a sense of humor or something. Most of you are a bit too serious and somewhat creepy .. peng is really funny though (beat up invalids and throw garbage on them..perhaps the funniest thing i read in a while). I'd crush you all in any game. I am a warrior, poet, mystic, visionary, ladykiller by the way. Lewis

I knew this would fire up the faithful. Tried to temper it with a little humor (throwing grenades back) but it was lost on the zealots in their rush to lay down their lives for a cause. Hey lighten up weenies. Its a game. When I buy it its MY game. You people act like if we all behave and be nice maybe they will give us a cookie. As if it matters, I have worked on plenty of projects that involve software integrated with hardware (real time embedded control of systems). Heres a clue..towards the end you are starting to get a real good idea when you will be finished. In the beginning, not so good an idea, get me some paper and a pen and I will draw you a picture. Now I am wanting kampfpistols with all the optional grenades, those antitank german grenades with the streamers, bouncing mortar bombs, molotov cocktails, different helmet styles for the correct month of the war,etc. Get it? Anal people never finish anything. I've worked with them and towards the end of a project they should start something else and let pragmatics take over. Lewis PS I want heros to jump on grenades too and win Medals of Honor.

Yeah but I think we customers will be better able to do our part after the games is out. Fionn. Lets get real. I dont think little fluff like that is going to matter. At this point there should be a known amount of remaining work and any programmer or technical type can judge fairly accurately a time frame as it will progress towards completion. No offense intended so dont get your Irish up. Its just I am not gullible and dont like when I am being fed sugar-coated updates. Lewis PS Can grenades be caught and then thrown back?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dumbo: As for TS yeah their NR (net relations) is just aweful. I got banned from the customer service board for having the "wrong name". Why as a paying customer I cant use whatever nick I want to read the tech board really offended me particularly when thier staff uses nicknames but customers cant. When I wrote to them I was told it was "none of my concern" I think they have a 14 year old who runs thier BBS I really do. _dumbo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I was kicked off at least 4 or 5 times. They would bait you too, like a bunch of prissy fags, and when you said so much as "peep", the TS nazis would read you the riot act. It was kind of fun for awhile too. I think a really well done platoon level game similar to CM would kick ass. Lewis

The germans should have made peace with the west after taking france. They should have kept the US out of the war as long as possible. The nazis hated communism above anything else and should have concentrated on that. The germans should have agreed to leave france as long as it was demilitarized and no foriegn country occupied it. Then they should have attacked russia with the goal of either quickly KOing them or at least securing oil supplies. I dont think any western nation would have sent help to russia after they attacked poland. If germany could have accomplished this before Dec 7, 1941 they stood a good chance of winning. Lewis

Griff I have 3 flags and 3 dead stugs for losing two shermans. Most of your infantry are in the wooded hill. If you leave the hill, you will be shot down. I am not getting within 150 meters of any of your infantry. I cant lose. Lewis

yes I know its grasshopper

How about CE with 4 sherm 75mm 1 76mm and 1:2Stugs, 1 Stug105 2:2Stug, 1 hetzer 3:1SturmTiger,1 JagdTiger, 2xMaus ...errr..wait thats Sudden Strike out... Lewis KAATN

Griffgeshuetz Ahhhhh you are lulling me into a sense of false contentment by losing all the stugs and FO81mm? Here weedhopper snatch the AP round out of my palm..only then can you leave the temple.... Lewis

PPS Chance Encounter is a meeting engagement in most peoples definition. Stugs are really ambush or overwatch weapons. Not too well suited to the meeting engagement task. Shermans being pursuit weapons are very well suited, especially since no "real" armor is present and the sherm 75mm can take on the enemy aussault guns. I think the germans should initially have: 1x234Puma (cause its fast and cooool) 1xHetzer (its a hull-down freaking shield MAAAANNNN!!!) Reinforcements after say turn 4: 1xPanzerIVJ 1x251w75L24 This hodgepodge would not be that untypical in the last days of the war and would showcase different armor types. The Hetzer would initially blunt sherman willy nilly tactics and the reinforcements would solidify things). Lewis

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoolColJ: Best looking wargame? Plus Talonsoft's attitude just plain stinks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I yeah I forgot about that~! I changed my mind again..F@#K Talonsoft!!!! Lewis

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Also, rotating a tank's frontage is a realistically quick way to traverse the gun. Notice that stationary turreted tanks tend to do this to aid turret rotation speed. The StuG has no choice and that is a disadvantage in all but stationary ambush situations. So if you meet a StuG in such a position you are meeting it in its most deadliest stance. Expect not so good results from your boys Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I believe Whittman was first a stug commander before his tiger days and he used to have the tiger drivers "face the threat" in a tiger just like he did in a stug. It allows the main weapon to rapidly combine its rotation with the vehicle rotation to get on target and to get the armor between you and the enemy. BTW He also kept his scissor range finders from his stug days and put them to use in his tigers like the sturmartillerie he used to be. Lewis PS Stugs shoot and scoot. Not stick around to face the music.

OK I changed my mind..if they put it for free in a box of crackerjacks..than ..maybe I would try it. Lewis

Griffster I think the panzerschreck helped when it immobilized that sherman so it was a sitting duck for the stug. I am waiting for the last stug to get KOed so I can bottle up all your infantry on the wooded hill. Lewis

I think that the Germans should have isolated the soviet union from western aid. They should have used the luftwaffe and navy to stop the flow of trucks, food, radios, and other war items that the SU so desperately needed. Russia could not feed itself when the germans held so much of its fertile areas. This would have created real friction in the alliance and a demand for a second front sooner. The germans should have got the japanese to attack the russians to make things worse for them. They should have shared technology so the japanese had better antitank and light weapons. I think the germans strategy in Normandy was really bad. It was obvious at this point in the war that ship supported landing assaults couldnt be stopped. The germans should have used a flexible defense, giving up the coast to fall back out of the navys range. Any attempts by the allies to set up air bases in France had to then be stopped with counterattacks. The germans should have had alot of forward protected supply dumps in France also. They knew the allies would blow every bridge to isolate the battle area. A gradual retreat where the germans inflicted alot of casualties on the allies would have made the opportunity for a peace with the west possible. Of course, they would have got nuked in 1945. The US government knew they were exterminating peoples and were designing the bomb for them. Why the US didnt start a propaganda war where they let the german people know what was going on in those camps is beyond me. Berliners never liked Hitler much anyway. Lewis

I wouldnt load up another one of those cheesy Talonsoftdick games if they were sticking them for free in crackerjack boxes. The whole turn based "I Go/You stand still with your thumb up your ass" genre is dead. Platoon level armor in the jungle? 250 meter hexes? A box it comes in has the ugly mugs of the designers on it? I dont think so.. Now if someone would only come up with a platoon/section level game with simultaneous execution and great 3D graphics..little menus pop up next to the units allowing you to change the formations, targets, facings... Lewis

http://members.tripod.com/~Sturmvogel/Stug.html#SS Heres a pretty good site with a list of stug units and an overview of sturmartillerie. He mentions that they had different sighting equipment than other stug units. Lewis

Steve I am glad you agree that part of this is outside the scope of the game. Its obviously not relevant then. I am basing my opinions on doctrine and books I read and not assumptions about training. I guess tanks and armor can be like fighter aircraft in that the men and training allow the whole weapon system to push the envelope of performance. Such as Tiger battalions only recruiting "proven" combat personnel for as long as they could. I would assume that the stug units belonging to the artillerie were the elite and might be manned accordingly, ie drawing on men who had experience facing the enemy. What I would rather discuss then is my contention that a smaller vehicle like a stug in the game as a harder to spot and hit target? Does it get any bonus towards attaining hull down status? Does it have a smaller dead zone in front of it? Also,I know the 75mm sherm is regarded as having a powerful punch. Is there any documentation that can compare the HE filling between a german 75 and an american? I would assume the US figured out the bare minimum steel casing for the low velocity 75 and maximized the HE content. I don't disagree or think this is untrue, just wonder if there is data to base this on. Well, I appreciate your time and look forward to playing the final demo. Lewis PS I believe later in the war panthers, panzer IVs and all armor had to be used in very small sections and platoons just out of desperate situations. Doctrine like that "single panzers are lost" stuff doesnt apply when all you have is one or two runners. In fact the game is at the scale where these actions are showcased. Will you have large company sized armor/mixed arms type of scenarios?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Infantry support is, in my understanding of the concept during WWII, for an AFV to add firepower to the strength of the infantry in order to allow it to obtain its objectives against primarily infantry based opposition (including fortifactions). This was the original design for both the StuG and the Sherman, but both by the end of the war were more geared towards AT role than infantry support. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Steve Thanks for the attention to this thread. Perhaps what I am getting at is something that is beyond the scope of the games focus. German infantry (The following is my recollection from a book on the eastern front..I believe it was called 'War in the East' or something very close) prefered stugs to panzers just due to the fact that they would stick around. The panzers would all to often be called away to other sectors, withdrawn because they were too valuable to take losses, or pursue the enemy and bypass points of resistance (guess who was to take care of them?). Panzer Grenadiers would be more understanding to the tankers actions but the German grunt in a infantry division would see it differently. This of course doesnt come into play in a game like CM. The sturmartillerie were better trained in tactics such as creating airbursts in trees against walls, etc. They relied on HE as the primary firepower and the german infantry they were supporting had plenty of MG firepower of their own. I think the L48 and stump 75mm on the stugs fired a HE shell that was the same (different case of course) so the explosive content would be equal but the L48 would get it where it was needed (but carry less rounds). The fact that stugs were low to the ground is vital when supporting infantry. WWII russian infantry brought ATGs/ATR everywhere, swamps, houses, etc. American units all had ATG/bazookas while fighting the Germans. Its a given that you are facing some antitank ability (or the mere presence of armor would normally make the oponent bolt for the hills). Height of a vehicle plays against it in two ways. First concealment is lost when you are sticking up over cover, second a larger target is more easily hit. Stugs were to fight from cover overwatching the advance of infantry. They would identify targets, quickly aquire and destroy them, then move to another position. The fact that the gun is low to the ground allows you to expose less of yourself and also engage targets that are very close (less dead zone) if need be. Numbers of vehicles are also a factor. Stugs might have been the most numerous german AFV (not counting halftracks). Given a choice of 3 stugs, 2 PIV, or 1 panther (1/8 King Tiger) what would you choose? The PIV with its weak turret frontal armor is not my choice. The single panther is great till its loss means no armor. In closing, I agree with you. Stugs are great. It took an obsolete hull from a tank that could not really fight anymore (PIII) and created an economical, successful dual purpose weapon that fought till the end of the war. In a war where Germany had to make artificial gasoline, the stug found a home. Lewis PS If what you say is true, then the 5 shermans against 3 stugs would give the americans an advantage in Chance Encounter?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goanna: From Username: Support is supposed to go both ways, and I don't think it would be too fun to be an infantryman in a Battalion you were running, Lewis. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Gowannabe I have nothing personal against you except that you are jumping in here sticking in two cents when you never addressed the earlier issues in this same thread. I can supply references that are appropriate and support the "truisms". You don't appreciate the difference between sturmartillerie and panzers. "Panzers Forward" deals with panzers I would presume. What battalion were you ever in? How much fun was it? Lewis PS The way you repeatatly use my name in your posts (3 times?)is, to say the least, annoying.

I think we are confused about what is considered infantry support. To me its when the infantry are out front of the supporting armor which is "shooting them onto the target". In this respect, the stug is very well designed. It is low and inconspicuous. It was crewed by artillery men who would use HE to better effect than panzers would (I never compared stugs to shermans by the way, I was comparing stugs to panzers). The shermans bow MG was not something to get in front of. It was "adjusted" by watching the tracer strikes through the vision block. I wouldnt want that to shoot me onto an objective. I agree that the sherm 75mm HE was formidable (as was its rate of fire and quick turret traverse and WP) but the bonus of the stugs AT ability is a better "overwatch" weapon for the infantry going in (in case armor shows up). I believe some stugs had coaxial MG as well as external MG. In my opinion the sherm 75mm was a good pursuit weapon once a breakthrough was achieved. As long as TDs were following behind closely. Its extreme height made it an obvious target and would draw alot of fire..not what I would want for infantry support. But it did function in this role and also as the sherm 105mm as an improvement. Lewis [This message has been edited by Username (edited 03-20-2000).]