s bakker

Oops, let me pick up my jaw now....... Grtz S Bakker

I was rumbling though the books this weekend and tried to figure out how you could calculate the 'extra protection' sloped armour would give. I think the formula is; (1/cos (angle)) * thickness = realtive thickness Thus for the front armour for the panther (80 mm at 55 degr.) that would mean: (1/cos(55 degr.)) * 80mm = 139,5 mm is this right ? And when a panther offsets it's front 30 degrees to an opponent would that would mean: (1/cos (30 degr.)) * 139,5 mm = 161 mm ? Just wondering .......... Grtz S Bakker

Well Panzerschreck i guess you're missing out on the fun in Chance Encounter ! Hust hop to "DOWNLOADS" (top of page) and grap this third beta demo scenario ! Grtz S Bakker

CM 44: beyond bored Players simulate being bored on a board; posting nearly-topic threads while playing a demo to shreds and having dreams about a near perfect game which will be released 'when it's done'. They risk their own sanity by telling the developers to take their time to finish the product while their souls cry out everytime they see new PTOD's of the full game; knowing that some lucky punks have been testing the full beta for months. Being patient and having no life worth mentioning are required to be able to play the game. ....... sigh

Well, let's analyze the different elements: D - the schug - search, seek, quest asch - ehm bottom, behind, rear end ? wili - ehm willy, little guy, the part of your body which makes you male Thus it means: 'the quest for a willy up your rear end' OH MY GOD !!!! Are you aware about he policies on this board on adult content ??? Just kidding couldn't resist the temptation. Grtz S Bakker PS: No hard feelings i hope, just a glitch of my sick sick mind

_______ diisopropylaminoethylmethylphosphonothiolate ________ Wow ! I'l remember that one for scrabble .... imagine getting double word value on that one ! Grtz S Bakker

Here is the second part of the article on mechanized assault. This part focuses on the role of the infantry during the tank attack and how the two branches can support each other. Read and enjoy. ---------------_____________________________________________ ATTACK BY MECHANIZED AND MOTORIZED FORCES. (2) Infantry-tank cooperation. When the enemy has well prepared positions with natural or constructed tank obstacles, the German infantry attacks before the tanks and clears the way. The objective of the infantry is to penetrate into the enemy position and destroy enemy antitank weapons to the limit of its strength and the fire power of its own support weapons, augmented by additional support and covering fire from the tanks and self-propelled weapons sited in their rear. Only after the destruction of the enemy antitank defense can the tanks be employed on the battle line to the fullest advantage.When the tank obstacles in front of the enemy position are already destroyed, and no additional tank obstacles are expected in the depth of the enemy's main defensice position, the infantry breaks through simultaneously with the tank unit. The infantry attack is conducted in the same manner as it would be without the cooperation of tanks. Heavy infantry weapons are kept in readiness to fire at possible newly discovered antitank positions. Of particular importance is protection of the open flanks by echeloning the flank units and employing heavy weapons at the flanks. In most cases, the infantry follows the tanks closely, taking advantage of the fire power and paralyzing effect of the tanks upon the enemy's defense. The Germans normally transport the infantry to the line of departure on tanks or troop-carrying vehicles in order to protext the infantry and to increase its speed. The infantry leaves the vehicles at the last possible moment, and goes into action mainly with light automatic weapons. The tanks advance by bounds from cover to cover, reconnoitering the terrain ahead and providing protective fire for the dismounted Panzer Grenadiers. The tanks do not slow their advance to enable the infantry to keep continuous pace with them, but advance alone and wait under cover until the infantry catches up with the advance. Terrain that does not offer sufficient cover is crossed with the greatest possible speed. The infantry attacks in small formations also by bounds under the fire cover of its own heavy weapons and of the tanks, staying away from individual tanks because they draw the strongest enemy fire. When a tank company attacks with infantry, there are normally two platoons on the line, one platoon back, and the fourth platoon in reserve. The interval between tanks is usually 100 to 120 yards. The tank's machine guns usually engage infantry targets at about 1,000 yards range and under, while the tank guns engage targets at 2,000 to 2,500 yards. The coordination between tanks and Panzer Grenadiers moving into combat on armored half-tracks is similar to the technique employed in a purely armored formation, since the armored half-tracks are not only troop-carrying vehicles but also combat vehicles. When the terrain is favorable for tank warfare, the Panzer Grenadiers in their armored half-tracks follow immediately with the second wave, after the first tank wave has overrun the opponent's position. A deep and narrow formation is employed. After the penetration, the main mission of the Panzer Grenadiers is to overcome the enemy positions which survived the first wave. In attacking enemy pillboxes the Germans use combat groups consisting of tanks, infantry, and engineers, assisted by artillery. The normal composition of a combat group attacking one bunker is one platoon of tanks and one platoon of infantry reinforced by one squad of engineers. Before the combat group is committed against the enemy pillbox, artillery fires high explosives and smoke shells at the neighboring pillboxes to isolate them, shells the terrain between pillboxes, and conducts counterbattery fire. Under the protection of this fire, the combat group advances close to the pillbox while other infantry units attack the enemy in the terrain between the pillboxes. One tank squad covers the advances of the other tank squads and the infantry platoon by direct fire against the pillbox, particularly against the observation and weapons' openings. The first tank squad halts under cover whenever possible and covers the advance of the second tank squad. When the combat group reaches a barbed wire obstacle surrounding the pillox, the two tank squads have different missions. One tank squad remains in front of the pillbox, and its tanks are driven into a position from which they can overlook the terrain, and watch out for antitank guns and machine gun emplacements, while the other tank squad (the pillbox tank squad) rolls across the obstacle to enable the infantry and engineers to get close to the pillbox. The pillbox tank squad then fires on the pillbox at close range. The infantry squad meanwhile takes the surrounding terrain and covers the engineeers who blast the entrance of the pillbox with TNT. _____________________________________________ Watch out using all these tactics blindly in CM though, particullary the part about ‘The tanks do not slow their advance to enable the infantry to keep continuous pace with them, but advance alone and wait under cover until the infantry catches up with the advance. Terrain that does not offer sufficient cover is crossed with the greatest possible speed.’ Changes are you gonna make a bazooka team very happy with this tactic ! Grtz S Bakker

Well greg just 'choose' someone on the list against who you want to play and email him. For example, i mailed / linked up with Dschugaschwili since we want to play on about the same frequency. As long as everybody keeps posting their data / preferences, there should always be 'ideal partner' out here with which who you want to 'loose your PBEM virginity' .... i guess i should shut up before i get vulgar here ..... Grtz S Bakker.

Not that is some interesting information to the discussion pending (i don't have the technical information/resources Fionn and Mattias seem to have ), but i found some pictures of a H-39 (french) at which the Germans had transfixed four sWF40 frames. needless to say they look really cute It's in "Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two" Peter Chamberlain, Hilary Doyle; Grtz S Bakker

It seems to me we are confusing the 'numbers on paper' and 'actual tanks in the field'. Being greatly skilled in the english language i interpeted 'nominal' as 'actual tanks in the field'. So let's try to make it clear. German tank battalions SHOULD have four companies of 22 tanks according to offcial documents (the 'K.St.Ns' ). IN PRACTICE German tank battalions could field far less ........ Shortages of operational tanks were so structural that during the last years of the war only elite units (like the ones you stated) still had two battaillions 'on paper'. Many of the panzer divisions (and brigades) had their 'paper' strength brought back to one battalion with some times even stugs replacing IV's or V's companies. What they could field 'in practice' could be as little as a handfull of tanks. Grtz S Bakker

________ The concussive force of a hit will jellify any human within 100 metres of the impact who happens to be out in the open. __________ Jellify, what a horrible term ...... Grtz S Bakker

Good work. I personnely think infantry (small unit) tactics are underrated. Since the bulk of all battles hinged on the efficiency of infantry, it wouldn't hurt any commander to hone his/her skill on this. Grtz S Bakker

Ok then ....... the pbem virus is on a rampage mounting casualties by the day. I'm sure there are more stompers out there who so far chickenend out to play by e-mail against non-AI opponents ( ). Like me. Set let's make this thread a sort of message board for all those guys who want to start playing PBEM against opponents with no or little experience in this ....... and at least to have not played all scenario's to shreds. The serious part: Name: Stefan Bakker From: Holland PBEM experience: None CM experience: 6 games so far Looking for: 1 or 2 pbem games against novice players to get the grips. Frequency: 1 or 2 turns a week max. E-mail: sbakker@aegon.nl Instead (or better besides) e-mail bombing me it would be wiser to post a reply with your data so to make a 'pool'. Grtz S Bakker

Some posts are just too beautifull to throw on the garbage heap of history. I think this one is one great homage to CM's gameplay. So read it and weep ...... Grtz S Bakker

mufffdpfpdfpd ufsuufdusfsfd! (it's hard to make cynical comments through clenched teeth ........ )

'....and haven't used 16 inchers since.. That was about 4 months ago. ' The thought that some lucky bastards have been playing CM for 4 months already is almost unberable ...... i would have licked the antimagnetic paste from a panther to be a tester voor CM . Grtz S Bakker

Silencer, a very intersting article indeed. I found this bit an eye-opnener; "An example of the swift recovery that was possible occurred on 29 June. Late in the afternoon the SPW battalion (III./SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 20) of the Hohenstaufen division had assembled for an attack together with Panther tanks from the panzer regiment. About 100 Lancaster planes bombed the assembly area. A huge dust cloud covered the area and those who observed the event were convinced that all units in the area must have been destroyed. However, by the evening 80% of the armoured vehicles were operational again. About twenty men had died during the bombing attack." hmmmm .... now how would that relate to the 16inch shelling in the other thread .... Aircraft were indeed deadly if they hit their mark, hitting their mark howevere was the main problem. When you're zooming past at 300+ km/h in a jabo you have little time to scout, aim, align and fire. And i agree with you that spotting afv's in folliage / depressions should be very hard for airborne treads. And then again, in pictures of German AFV's in 44/45 it's striking that most AFV's are heavily camo'd and the crews have their heads up .... looking for dots in the sky .... There should be a reason for that ' Dont't the heavy and medium tanks have AA-MG? All the pictures you see, the tanks had Anti-air later on in the war. Is this modelled in CM? ' Well, a single MG would make little chance of downing a jabo in 1944. Instead its purpose was to harass the jabo as it was aligning for its shot. Those tracer lines looked more nasty to pilots than they really were .... Grtz S Bakker

Promises, promises. Here’s part II of the article. Although more generic, this part gives insight of the emplacement of troops in a town defense, and the added bonus overview of how improvised units were utilized. Food for thought for all the (would be?) scenario builders out there. ++++++++++++++++ German tactics, Defensive, The defense of towns. Part II In the case of fairly small villages, consolidation of the place itself is usually deemed sufficient. For larger locations an outer defense system is constructed in addition to the inner defenses. The inner defense system consists of a number of concentric positions which are broken down into perimeter positions, intermediate positions, and the inner ring position. The inner defense system is divided into sectors, each forming a strongpoint system in itself, with the strongpoints protected by all-around antitank and infantry obstacles and connected with each other by trenches. The perimeter ring position is the most important part of the inner defenses and consists of one or more continuous trench systems, each with a deep main battle zone. The forward edge often is beyond the outskirts of the village, unless this creates unfavorable conditions for the antitank defense, in which case it is within the village itself. Artillery and heavy support weapons are employed as whole units in support of the perimeter ring position, although single guns may be detached for the defense of strongpoints and roads. The nearer the fighting approaches the inner ring, the more likely it will be that the Germans will split up the support weapons units for close cooperation with infantry assault groups. The outer defense system likewise consits of a number of concentric positions, approximately 4 to 6 miles apart, so as to force the enemy artillery to displace to engage each one. For defense of larger towns the Germans organize the outside ring about 12 ½ to 18 ½ miles beyond the outskirts whenever feasible. Beyond this outside defense ring, about 2,200 yards forward, are the advanced positions, with covering units still further forward on main roads and railways. Patrols of all types, including motorized and cyclist patrols, give early warning of the enemy's approach and keep him under continuous observation. Non-military outposts, such as police sentries, party officials, and local farmers also are used for these duties. Sector boundaries for companies and battalions are defined from the outside defense ring to the center of the town or village. Usually they do not coincide with vital main roads, which always are defended by entire companies or battalions. Every strongpoint, defense block (combined adjacent buildings), and sector has local reserves; mobile reserves, consisting of combat groups comprised of infantry, tanks, assault and self-propelled guns, are employed for counterattacks of a larger scale. In addition to regular military units the Germans employ emergency units, organized from personnel of Army, Navy, and Air Force in town defense. besides these regularly organized emergency units, improvised emergency units are formed from stragglers, remnants of formations, and units in process of reorganization. Utilization of emergency units is only temporary. Their main tasks, of local nature, are protection of headquarters, supply points, airfields, etc., and garrison service in fortifications. ++++++++++++++++ In particular the German emphasis on flexibility and the necessary (local) reserves becomes apparent. I usually overcommitted my defense forces in CM with the result i couldn’t react quickly enough to shifts in the attack. Be sure to check out Moon’s website - www.gamesofwar.de As he pointed out, this article and other interesting articles from ‘The handbook on german military forces’ can be found here, complete with maps and charts. I’m plannig to post at least one more article from this particular book here, which i find relative to CM, to fire up discussions on this board. To do that i will shamelessly copy/paste from moon’s site and post it here in three seperate parts (!). To do that i need Moon’s permission to get it, Steve’s permission to post it and you guys to read it and comment on it! So if you guys don’t flame me you can expect more posts like this in the near future (i’ll use different sources though ... ). Grtz S Bakker.

Well, he wrote more then those books. Just look at this URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Author=Jentz%2C%20Thomas%20L./ref=sim_artist_detail/104-3018119-9260443 Grtz S bakker

You may It's from 'Handbook on German Military Forces', nice reference for TO&E off late war german units (>44). And gives an american view of german tactics and strategies. 'Floreat Jerboa'; i'm curious what that means .... sounds Russian or Polish ...

I found this interesting read about defensive tactics and thought i might as well share with you guys. It’s a bit out of scope for CM here and there, but interesting from a tactical point of view. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ German tactics, Defensive, The defense of towns. Part I The Germans regard towns and villages as excellent strongpoints, particularly if the buildings are of masonry. Towns also are regarded as excellent antitank positions because of the considerable infantry-artillery effort necessary to neutralize them. In defending a town or village, the Germans locate their main line of resistance well within the built-up portion; the edges of the town, which provide easy targets for artillery fire, are believed to be too vulnerable. The main line of resistance is laid out irregularly in order to envelop flanking fire, and every effort is made to conceal its location until the last possible moment. Minor strongpoints are maintained forward of the line in order to break up attacks and provide additional flanking fire. Cul-de-sacs are organized and attempts are made to trap attacking forces in them for destruction by counterattacking mobile reserves. These reserves are kept in readiness within the town itself , but other reserve forces are held outside the town to prevent hostile flanking maneuvers. Both occupied and unoccupied buildings are booby-trapped in organizing the defended positions. Entrances to buildings are blocked, and all windows opened so as not to disclose those from which fire is maintained. Rooms are darkened and passages are cut in the walls between buildings. To avoid detection, the Germans fire from the middle of the rooms, and frequently change their positions, while communication is maintained through cellars and over roofs. Chimneys and cornices are used as cover for men on roofs; tiles may be removed to provide loopholes. Searchlights are mounted to illuminate fields of fire; in their absence vehicles headlights may be used as substitutes. When houses collapse, the defense is carried on from cellars, and rubble heaps of destroyed areas are organized as strongpoints. Tanks are considered to be ineffective within a defended town, although the Germans have used them in static, dug-in positions at cross-roads and squares. As a result of their experience on the Eastern Front, the Germans believe single tanks are too vulnerable to Molotov cocktails, magnetic mines, and explosive charges. When the Germans themselves use these antitank weapons, they employ them from foxholes dug outside the perimeter of the town. Efforts are made to destroy enemy tanks immobilized by antitank action, either within or outside the town, in order to prevent their recovery or use as artillery observations posts or machinegun nets. Antipersonnel mines are interspersed in antitank minefields because the attacking infantry are considered the chief menace. Assault guns may provide direct defensive support fire If attacking forces break through and disorganize the German positions. To secure the added protection afforded by masonry walls, the Germans may locate assault guns or tanks, within buildings and use them against hostile armored vehicles and infantry. Counterattacks, supported by assault guns or tanks, will not be withheld until the situation has become desperate ; indeed, surprise counterattacks may be launched at any time. For the defense of village strongpoints special battle commandants (Kampfkommandanten) are appointed. The battle commandant is usually the senior officer and the tactical commander of all military forces, emergency units, and civil organizations in his area. He has the disciplinary power of a regimental commander. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Give me some feedback whether you want to see part II or that this is not the place for this kind of literature. Grtz S Bakker.

Herr Oberst, propably in Jentz' Tiger I and II; Combat tactics.

Foreign readers/posters arise ! Maybe we should make clear how many 'non-usa' there are here. Let's kick the bucket: I'm dutch. (And no, i'm not wearing wooden shoes ). grtz s bakker PS: er zitten vast nog meer nederlanders te wachten op CM .........

Mark IV, thanks for the lenghty (and informative) reply. Don’t get me wrong though i am not preaching ‘a feature that specifies a point on the enemy tank as the target’ , i was just wondering what CM does and doesn’t do. That doesn’t mean i demand it should be in CM, it seems too much posts are mis-interpeted in this way already (ask AH64D J ). Anyways; ‘ Track hits are the slender hope of the outgunned. The effects of a track hit are already modeled ‘ Great ! Now, to go completely overboard on that here is an example of what i would love to see an AI do (maybe whith a little help): For example: A couple (or platoon?) of sherman 75’s stumble on a lonely tiger. It’s no use for the shermans to duke it out, since they are outgunned and have no hopes for achieving frontal penetration on the tiger. If the tiger is far away they should fire smoke or pop smoke and get the hell outta there. If the tiger is close they should get more agressive. They could put smoke directly in front of the tiger OR target it’s tracks OR put HE on it to disorientate it and preferably all three . Then one or two should go for the flank shot. ‘ If you look at pictures of those German tanks that have cupolas, you'll see the problem- there's just not that much to aim at.’ Agreed, while the russians used AR against these hard to hit targets (who had to be close anyway) in CM’s setting this is not a very valid tactic. With bazookas and schrecks at your disposal your a much bigger threat to the whole of the tank. ‘Of course if you hit it somewhere else with an impotent round, you have a highly pissed-off tank with a fix on your location.’ Yep, imagine a platoon of stuarts just happily pecking on an tiger instead of high-tailing it out of there. But sadly enough i’ve seen it happen in some computer wargames though ...... I understand the AI already has enough wits to manouver it’s AFV’s behind cover if threatened (foliage, terrain or burning collegeas). That already brings a tear to my eye. grtz s bakker PS: the more i learn about CM the more i like it !

Because i'm a lamer i only played CE once against the AI as yet. I won though ... . Since i knew it was a meeting engagement i raced the stugs to the central crest line. Very nice field of fire. The infantry headed for the forest on the hill on the right and the church on the left (via the cover there, not along the road). I knocked out four advancing shermans quickly while loosing two stugs. (lucky me ) The remaining stug i withdrew from the crest and had him rerout through the village to prowl on the remining sherman, which was positioned almost on the edge of the map on a rise left besides the road. Luckely for me the american infantry were checked by my infantry firing from the hill and the church, so the stug was able to surprise the sherman and knock him out. The rest of the battle i just let the americans advance on my strong defence positions and thus weakend them considerably. In the last ten turns i swiped their remaining forces out oof the village. They still held the left hill though. Alas a major axis victory. Losses: 48 german men over 151 american 2 stugs over 5 shermans and 2 mortars . Maybe it's time i took on an opponent of flesh and blood and get my ass kicked .. grtz, s bakker