MikeO

Well I've just loaded 'Shogun: Total War' so I'm hoping this will dull the pain and European anguish of the llllonnnnnnggggggg waaaaaiiittttt. Otherwise I may have to resort to neat alcohol. Two long awaited (for me anyway) games out at the same time - how am I supposed to choose which to play? Some kind of conspiracy surely. Small co-op games company actually run by anarchists whose hidden agenda is to bring down western capitalism by causing mass simultaneous 'sick leave'. Yeah, that's it...

'The British Soldier, Volume 2, Organisation, Armament and Vehicles' gives the following information which supports your figures, Formerly Babra: US Name Brit Name Gun Numbers Delivered M4* Sherman I 75mm 2,096 M4A1** Sherman II 75mm 942 M4A2* Sherman III 75mm 5,041 M4A4* Sherman V 75mm 7,163*** M4105* Sherman IB 105mm 593 M4A176.2**Sherman IIA 76.2mm 1,330 *Welded hull **Cast hull ***The base for the 'Firefly' conversion Only a dozen each of the M4A3 and M4A2 76mm were delivered for trials. Above is quoted direct from the book. Must say I was surprised at how many 76mm M4A1's were sent. Also it ignores the non-M4A4s converted to Firefly.

Following on from a thread about Commonwealth forces, here's three recent books I've got my hands on which follow the popular current style of showing colour photos of human models dressed in original uniforms and equipment: 'The World War II Tommy in Colour Photographs' - Martin Bradley & Richard Ingram, ISBN 1 86126 190 X Almost 300 excellent photos showing all manner of uniform and weaponry. Done 're-enactor' style with models posed in the field and alongside museum vehicles and even inside a D-Day landing craft. Some amusing moments including a guy sitting on the latrine in the fatigues he'd probably wear for taking a morning crap . Virtually every piece of personal kit you can think of is illustrated including some weaponry I'd never heard of before. Eg. the British rifle grenade cup-discharger which enabled the No36 Grenade to be fired from the SMLE rifle (Don't worry, BTS, it was fairly rare by 1944; being reserved for certain assault troops and Commandos). Also of note is a sequence showing a Vickers MMG team going into action (note: this definitely WASN'T charged into battle at the point ). According to the book each Vickers required 2 Universal Carriers to carry the gun, crew and reserve ammo although they would stay to the rear in action. Of most interest to me was the INDIRECT fire capability of the Vickers: 'For indirect fire the gun was aimed using the dial sight - the tangent sight being folded flat. The dial sight, used with aiming posts during the day and aiming lamps at night, allowed the gunner to engage targets that were out of sight such as those in dead ground. The aiming posts were normally placed to the front left of the gun....The Vickers in its sustained fire role (aided by water coolant) was capable of putting down devastating indirect fire, creating a 'beaten zone' at ranges out to two miles...' For Sosabowski(sp) there's even a Polish para in grey beret 'The British Soldier, 1944-45. Volume 1, Uniforms, Insignia and Equipment' ISBN 782908 182446 'Volume 2, Organisation, Armament and Vehicles' ISBN 2 908 182 742 by Jean Bouchery Excellent pair of books on the late war British army that could almost be the standard work (and written by a Frenchie ) Volume 2 is by far my favourite with loads of TOE charts from the breakdown of a Brit section to detailed divisional structure right down to the theoretical number of Stens carried. Loads of photos and paintings together with vehicle data. Spotted a couple of errors - the standard colour scheme for Brit manufactured vehicles in ETO 1944 was Shade 15 Olive Drab not Bronze Greene as stated. Latter only came in at the end of the war. Hope this was of interest...

Those 'Victory in the West' volumes by L.F. Ellis are excellent, particularly vol 1 'The Battle of Normandy' with that small scale map of the 'Odon Battlefield' showing all the fields and hedgerows. Very much a dry 'official' history though IMHO. For more in the way of eyewitness accounts of small unit actions, I still find 'Caen: Anvil of Victory' by A. McKee to be an old classic.

Surprised no-one's mentioned the famous battle for Carpiquet airfield in Normandy. The 12th SS against the Canadians. Lots of nice flat terrain for AT guns but I don't know how interesting an operation that would make.

Hey stodge, I know a lot of people who want to get away from the Boro but emigrating to Canada was a bit extreme wasn't it?

London Calling here. Plaistow, E13, to be precise though I've also lived in Walthamstow, Stoke Newington, Leyton and Wood Green. Before that I lived in Leicester and originally came from Middlesbrough (noted for having a football team that can beat *most* London ones )

Hehe, Steve, its at least 3 mths since I mentioned the good Major so I figured you had probably forgotten about him Anyhow I promise never to mention the 'B'-word ever again . You DO believe me don't you??... oops sorry... [This message has been edited by MikeO (edited 05-18-2000).]

Just took a peek at the latest vehicle list and noticed this little beauty (smiley overload time). Oh, you little teases, BTS. And I thought you weren't going to put it in. All your hard work is much appreciated. The little details on top of the main features are what will make this game a true classic. Little touches like the late war German uniforms in the gold demo ARE noticed by the real anoraks like me. Vehicle list is more than comprehensive. Any future requests? Well the strange vehicles used by the 21st Panzers in Normandy would be nice (the Becker conversions and the old PzIVBs and Cs but I know you already have those in mind). Cheers! Mike

Ah, its Bunker Hill and Yorktown all over again Owen, sorry but as a Brit I'm beginning to squirm with embarrassment at some of the things you've said here. I can't deny I've waded in myself when somebody from across the pond has started a bit of Brit-bashing (these 'debates' seem to crop up all over the place quite regularly). But this time I think its the other way round? I can see the under-estimation of Brit units in NW Europe being galling but to attack US units is going too far. I wouldn't agree with all of Aacooper's judgements if I were making an Op but some I would. For instance the 12thSS 'HJ' was mainly young conscripts with a cadre of 1stSS officers and NCOs. Most 'green', some regs, a couple elite and all certainly 'fanatical'. However I don't think the US came up against 'crap' opposition either. One of the main reasons the Germans put most of their armour against the Commonwealth was that the bocage in that sector was more open and better suited to tank warfare (just look at a good small scale map of Normandy from the period). The US, from Bloody Omaha onwards, had to fight through extremely difficult terrain against some incredibly determined infantry units such as FJ divisions and the 17SS PanzerGrenadiers. The 2nd SS Panzers arrived later as did a heavily battered Panzer Lehr. Later still there was the Mortain counter-attack, though admittedly by this point many Panzer Divisions had all but ceased to exist (I assume Steve meant Mortain when he mentioned the 1stSS fighting the US in Normandy as it mainly fought the Commonwealth forces before that). As for most British infantry in Normandy; I would rate them as 'regular'. Some might on the surface appear 'veteran', through length of service (eg 50th Northumbrian), but even most Brit historians accept that a certain war fatigue had begun to emerge in certain units that had little R&R time. A sprinkling of vets would suffice (such as Sgt Hollis's section- he won the only VC on D-Day and he came from my home town ) The same for other 'Desert Rat' Divisions such as 7th Armoured. In one history of this unit the author says there were grumbles that they were 'point' once again plus the tank crews complained about their Shermans being replaced by brand new Cromwells that hadn't been 'run-in'. The Guards Armoured? I don't know. Perhaps there should be a distinction drawn between units that were part of the pre-war volunteer army, territorials and the newly raised units. There is also a good case for making the Canadian units in Normandy 'fanatical' or such based on their 'volunteer' status and their record in Normandy. Finally one thing I *did* object to was how late war Brits were handled in 'Steel Panthers' where their morale was so inferior to the Yanks they would run away at the first volley. Hadn't they heard of 'The Thin Red Line'? (oops, wrong war )

Just getting back to the Red Devil uniform- hey, Tom, you're right! Bright red berets are a common mistake for the paras but I suppose it would be easy to do a texture mod. The little photo in the user interface seems to have got it right. The colour was almost 'claret' like the divisional badge (sky blue pegasus on claret background- Brits should think of the West Ham United colours...). As for the camo Denison smocks; well I hope that if BTS can do a separate camo texture slot for the SS (many of whom wore field grey anyway) they will do separate ones for the allies? (Red Devils always wore camo). If I can make a suggestion (ignorant of whether it is possible), would it be possible to do loads of slots for the various troop types in each nation? Even if they are identical placeholders it would allow artistic users to create some rich variety. OK, won't affect gameplay but just my tupenny request, especially as the game seems to be getting graphically richer every day!

There is no reason or justification for it. No way to explain myself. Am I sick? Someone PLEASE help me... YES, I LOVE THE CROMWELL TANK!!!!!!!!!!!! There I said it and I feel much better. At 15 I scratchbuilt three 1/76th scale Cromwells from plasticard because no company would produce a model of this beautiful British late war MBT. One has a 95mm howitzer. They fought and regularly died on the miniature battlefield until finally they retired to a place of honour on my bookshelf. Each bulbous rivet on their sexy angular turret was lovingly teased into place...ohhh the agony and the ecstasy... Then I scaled up the plans to 1/35th and I was ready! But then, ahhh....You probably guess the rest. Tamiya, Tamiya, why did we have to wait soooo long....

You're probably right about the ammo problems with captured Russian equipment. The same book mentioned by Berlichtingen states how the Panzer Lehr Division was armed with Russian 152mm field guns in Normandy instead of standard German 150mm. A couple of weeks after the landings the Division was so short of ammo they were applying for the guns to be replaced with German ones! Cheers, Mike O'Brien

The Canadians in Normandy had a ferocious reputation, most notably in the fighting between 3rd Canadian Div against 12SS PD which developed into tit-for-tat atrocities. No-one knows exactly who started shooting prisoners but few were taken on either side. In 'Caen: Anvil of Victory' Alex Mckee describes the following event: '"I witnessed a real carnage of troops (German) in a field close to Carpiquet," wrote Sergeant Gariepy. "The Germans had succeeded in infiltrating the advance post of the Regiment de la Chaudiere, tough, rugged French-Canadians who brawl on weekends for divertissement, at home. We were very close by when the alarm sounded at around 0400 hours. The Regiment de la Chaudiere scurried in the semi-darkness and actually slit the throats of most soldiers they found, wounded as well as dead. This horrible carnage I actually saw from the turret of my tank at first light. These boys were actually crazed by some frenzy at being caught napping; the officers of the Regiment had to draw their pistols against their own men to make them come back to reason..."' In the same book the author claims the main difference between Canadian and British troops was that the Canadians were all volunteers whereas Britain had conscription and was severely lacking in manpower (losses in the Great War still hurt). Helmut Ritgen in 'The Western Front: Memoirs of a Panzer Lehr Officer' has the following to say: 'At one observation point, Point 102 near Cristot, a Canadian scouting party returning to its unit surprised the command group. The one armed Oberst Luxenburger was struck down and tied to one of the reconnaissance tanks. The enemy tank was later destroyed by an anti-tank gun from II Btn, 26th SS PzGren Regt. Only Major Zeisler was able to flee unharmed...After crossing the Channel, the Canadians had to overcome the exhaustion of the subsequent day-long combat operations by taking Benzamine, stay-awake tablets. These "Benzies" - similar to the German Pervitin, increased one's physical capability, but also reduced scrupulousness and thus increased one's bloodthirstiness - were the continuation of the despised chemical warfare of the First World War in another form...' This book was published recently by the excellent *Canadian* company JJ Fedorowicz - perhaps, like Saving Private Ryan, a general catharsis is happening on the allied side now we have passed out of the 'John Wayne' era. Cornelius Ryan also mentions the use of 'Benzies' (commonly known as a type of 'Speed' these days) by British Paras to overcome fatigue in 'A Bridge Too Far'. Does anyone know of similar official use of drugs by US or Russian troops in this little told WW2 story?

LOL, Eichmann2, 'Shtep in time, Merry Porppins!' I think your nervous anxiety (which I share)can be traced back to a certain 'other' game in your past that has become buried in your subconscious. Do the words: 'Pick up your weapon!', mean anything to you? If so just have a nice cup of tea, old chap, and everything will be fine... Mike 'Freud'

From 'German Army Semi-Tracks 1939-45, Part 1, Prime Movers and Self Propelled Carriages' by P. Chamberlain and H. Doyle: '1943 8.8cm FLAK 37(sf) auf Zugkraftwagen 18t Crew: 9 estimated Weight: 25 tons This vehicle represents a most interesting conversion. In an attempt to provide mobility for the 8.8cm FLAK a small series of 14 of these vehicles were built to carry the 8.8cm FLAK 37 which was similar to the other 8.8cm guns (L/56) but with additional fire control equipment. Due to the size of the 18t vehicle an all round traverse could be achieved, special pivot arms folded down and increased the stability of the unit in action. The requirement for such vehicles did not continue as the war situation deteriorated and no further examples appeared. The armour was 14.5mm and covered all the crew compartment and engine. Conversion took place at Weserhuette of Bad Oeynhausen.' (book includes two photos) There is also a rare newsreel still of a 12 ton zugkraftwagen with an SP 88mm in France, 1940 in the same book. Mike

Harold, I think you must be talking about the Royal Navy Field Gun Competition at the annual Royal Tournament (last one this year...). Two Navy teams race across an obstacle course with their field guns - but these aren't 6-pounders, they are big ole 12-pounders. Across most of the course the guns are disassembled and then put back together at the end. The competition has run since 1907 and commemorates an event during the Boer War in 1899 when crews from HMS Powerful and Terrible transported their 12-pounders 100s of miles from the ships to relieve the siege of Ladysmith. When their oxen died they manhandled the guns the rest of the way over difficult terrain. See this site for more: http://members.aol.com/faafgun/ Cheers, Mike

Yes, when reading these accounts its often difficult to get an idea of the time-scales involved. Even the veterans themselves often talk of their perception of time becoming distorted under the stress of combat In this instance, the following further extracts are the only time references: 'We had started at 4.30 in the morning. At 7.30, in addition to our losses in the sunken road, earlier, the commander of my second gun, Corporal Berger, was killed and two of the crew seriously wounded. We carried them into the nearest half-ruined house for shelter, and would have run into trouble but for the fact that some of the grenadiers who were helping us push the guns had searched it a few minutes before...At the end of the day, we were back precisely where we started from. But the next morning, our depleted companies advanced once more against le Quesnay, took it and pushed on to Briquessard...' In CM terms (30-60min firefights) this would certainly mean relatively short distances and most of the movement seems to have been across level ground, paths, roads, fields etc. under cover where the pushers could build up some momentum from the guns weight. 'Charging' was perhaps hyperbolism though Also, its clear that it wasn't just the 5-man(?) crews doing the pushing. Mike

OK, here's more from 'Caen: Anvil of Victory' by Alex Mckee that is that is right on topic. This book is based around dozens of eye witness accounts from both sides. Must say this extract surprised me. It comes from Hans Braun of Panzerjaegerabteilung38 (2nd Panzer Division) equipped with PAK40's: 'In our company we had five operational anti-tank guns left; their task was to follow close behind the attacking grenadiers, down the roads or paths, or across the patch-work of field...We pushed our guns forwards muzzle first, straining and heaving, to keep up with them. We entered a sunken road with high hedges on either sides, and tree branches overhead, which led to a small stream near the south-west corner of le Quesnay. After we had advanced 200 yards down it, shells exploded in the branches above our heads and there was a rain of splinters...While we were still bandaging the wounded men, we heard a very loud sound of engines, and there was a shout of "Anti-tank guns - forward!". I told the crew of the first gun to get it forward at the double...at last, my gun had arrived. It was already camouflaged as a bush, so we ran it directly into the gap in the stone wall (then follows an exciting engagement with a group of Cromwell tanks) ...In the north part of the town and in the adjacent orchards, the British infantry were still fiercely holding out. Here we cleaned up a shed, after pushing our gun through someone's backyard...' After this Braun's guns are forced to withdraw as an artillery barrage comes down, followed by Typhoons. If I had not read this testimony myself, I would probably have scoffed at the idea of guns the size of PAK40's being charged forward in close support of attacking infantry. Sometimes veterans' memories DO become confused years later (book published 1964) but this sounds pretty convincing! I suppose the nature of the bocage must have had something to do with these tactics. Guess the motto 'get ready to unlearn' holds true more than we think Mike O'Brien

Yes, nice one Steve. I retried some search words I'd used before and no blank spaces on the left this time Cheers, Mike O'Brien [This message has been edited by MikeO (edited 11-17-99).]

I tried a search for this and couldn't find anything but I apologize if I missed it. Can light guns such as a 6pdr/57mm etc be placed in a house? Will heavy tanks have the ability to ram buildings? These questions struck me as I was re-reading 'Caen: Anvil of Victory' by Alex McKee: 'The Germans rolled into Villers-Bocage, but the British did not retreat. Small parties of infantry, with Piats, and supported by 6-pounder anti-tank guns, began to stalk the Tigers. One 6-pounder was run into position inside a house; a Tiger rammed the wall, and the house fell down. Another Tiger took cover inside a shop and was fired at by a Cromwell lurking round the corner of a sidestreet...' Cheers, Mike PS, just on the search facility; sometimes the links under the 'threads' column appear blanked out. Does this mean the post is not available?

In one scenario my US bazooka ambushed a German H/T. The text indicated a hit and at first I thought I'd knocked it out. Then next turn it started reversing at full speed back up the road! I could just imagine the frantic cries of 'Driver reverse!'... Mike O'Brien

Excellent site, Richard, and not just German and US either! Some nice Brit, Canadian, French and Polish models amongst others. I love the descriptions of techniques given by the actual modellers themselves. Steve, those resin modellers are quite mad I've seen AFVs with individual track links and the super-detail/conversion kits for Tamiya etc. suggest very little social life. BTW, be careful what you ask for; I can see thousands of fanatical supporters breaking open the kit sprues right now Mike

Steve, As you're into 1/35th scale models try: http://www.rjproducts.com/ They can get virtually any kit produced, including those pricey resin jobs such as.... Lorraine Schlepper with Pak40 from Cri.El. Models of Italy Mike

Hi tgra, I thought the archive footage and eyewitness accounts from the Russian front series were fascinating. Plenty of Bundesarchiv footage and lots in colour! From the last episode I think one of the best chosen was the German occupation of Hungary in March 1944 with film of the Panzer Lehr Division moving into Budapest with Pumas, SPWs etc. Clearly well researched and not the usual sort of stock footage gaffes lazy documentary-makers use (Tigers in the invasion of Poland etc ) The BBC still comes up with some excellent war documentaries. One I wished I'd taped was the 2-parter on Normandy shown on the 50th aniv. in 1994. Never released on video. Anybody got it?? Cheers, Mike