MikeO

Hehe, LOL, yes Becker's 'panzers' are a bit of a problem. Please DON'T delay CM v1.0 just to include them as one of us is likely to get lynched Perhaps I should be forced to scratch-build a model as penance for mentioning them Only 1/35th scale currently available are some of those pricey resin kits. 'Cri.El. Models' do both the Pak40 and 15cm versions of Lorraine Schlepper and 'ALBY Miniatures' also do the Pak40 version. 'On Track Models' do the 10.5cm on H39 chassis and 'Ironside/Azimut' do the 4.7cmPak/Renault R35. Must admit I just think they look 'cute'. Don't have any stats but I assume the superstructures were made of the same thin, low-grade armour as Marder II/IIIs or Wespes. Probably slow too considering the top-heavy, overloaded chassis. You probably already know this stuff, Steve, but in case anyone else is interested here are some 'Becker' facts. Virtually all SP artillery in 21st Pz Div. in Normandy was a Becker conversion. The artillery regt. had 43 15cm howitzers on the H39 and 45 on Lorraine chassis. 'Stug' Abt. 200 had 20 Lorraine Schleppers with PAK 40 ('Marder 1') and 30 with 10.5cm howitzers. It also had a platoon of Somua MCG half- tracks mounting 16X81mm mortar barrels rigged to load and fire simultaneously. The hvy comps of the two PzGren regts.were each equipped with Somua MCG half-tracks mounting PAK 40s. Total known numbers used in NW Europe:- 4.7cmPak/R35 - 110 according to 'D-Day Tank Warfare' by Zaloga and Balin Pak40/Lorraine Schlepper ('MarderI') - 184 ('Panzers in NW Europe', Quarrie) Pak40/Somua 307(f)MCG H/T - 16 (German Army Semi-Tracked Vehicles Pt2, Chamberlain and Doyle) Cheers, Mike O'Brien

Death of Wittmann and the Rocket-Story There's an excellent article by Renato Niemas on Wittmann's final battle in 'Military Illustrated' mag, May 1999. Niemas accepts that there is no conclusive evidence as the events are shrouded in 'FOW' but has sifted through the evidence and come up with 5 scenarios. 1) VC Firefly from 1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry. The tank 'Velikye Luke' claimed three Tigers that day (gunner: Joe Ekins), another unidentified Firefly claimed one. No other known claims by tankers made. 2) Typhoon rocket. Main source was account by Serge Varin after he examined the wreck of 007 in 1946. '...found an unexploded rocket nearby and with no other entry points visible on the wreck he concluded that it had been destroyed in a rocket attack from a fighter-bomber'. RAF claimed 135 vehicles that day but no activity in that area. 3) Area under considerable artillery bombardment. Brit 5.5 inch could have penetrated rear/top. 4) Locals found craters probably produced by Brit naval guns in the area. An outside chance given the state of the wreck. 5) USAAF bombs were falling short of target in the correct time and place... The article seems to give credence to Varin's otherwise unsubstantiated claim of 'jabo' rockets but allows the equal possibility that Trooper Ekins got the kill. Mike O'Brien

Your list of vehicles is more than enough to fight the vast majority of NW Europe battles. I like the inclusion of the captured French H39s. If I could make a request (perhaps for the future) it would be for the Becker conversions which consisted of German SP artillery on French chassis. The most common used the Chenillette Lorraine armoured transporter ('Lorraine Schlepper') but Hotchkiss tanks, Somua HT's and Renault 35R's were also used. 21st Panzer Div. mainly used substantial numbers of these vehicles throughout the Normandy campaign. Alfred Becker was a German artillery officer who used his family's industrial contacts in Germany to have the conversions done at Alkett in Berlin-Spandau. They included 75mm Pak 40, 150mm howitzer and multi-barrel mortar versions . Cheers, Mike O'Brien

Whilst we're discussing the AARs I thought I'd make a point that I'd held off mentioning because I thought the game was still in progress. It may seem minor but I notice the crews of the German half tracks were in black panzer uniform. I've read only panzer crews could wear black and even then they usually wore green overalls at this late stage. SP crews wore a field grey version but half- track crews in PzGren units would wear PzGren uniform. May seem like nit-picking but I notice Fionn's use of dismounted crews to pretend he had more infantry didn't fool Martin for a second when he saw their little black number! Mike O'Brien

Must say when I read mick(xe5)'s post I thought it was just jokey banter but then I'm used to his sense of humour on the CC2 gamestats site Most of his post seemed complimentary. Sometimes irony doesn't come across too well on these forums and is easily misinterpretated, especially if the person is unfamiliar. Mick is always incredibly patient with newbies, especially when explaining CC2 editing. Fionn puts fantastic enthusiasm into the gaming stuff he does. Just hope it is a misunderstanding.

Looks like plenty of us miniature players don't need to much convincing on the hex front though when it comes the you-go-I-go vs we-go debate there might be some unlearning to do...I always preferred 'simultaneous' rules systems myself though they were inevitably slower on the tabletop. Currently there seems to be a reaction back to simpler, faster (and less realistic!) you-go-I-go mini rules. Many of us probably see Combat Mission as the computer game to finally break the mold. Viva la Revolution! Perhaps you should also post your article on the war-historical NG, Fionn?

Anybody have a GI Joe/Action Man doll when they were a kid? Remember struggling to get him into a kneeling pose?

Apologies for starting the blowing bridges thing again . My comment was meant firmly tongue-in-cheek as Steve dealt with this in depth in the 'engineers and explosives' thread. I should have said 'you should be able to do most battles in *CC2* except blow bridges...' I think I got the wrong end of the stick about CM 'campaigns' until searching more thoroughly through early threads. I thought that perhaps, even if you couldn't blow a bridge during a tactical battle, a defender might be able to destroy a threatened bridge behind his lines 'between' firefights in longer campaigns. The longest dynamic campaigns seem to be 2 days max and use a 1000m X 8000m map if I've understood right so maybe this is incorrect? CC2 is a specialised campaign that includes the bridge-blowing 'gimmick' as a feature but CM seems to be generalised so you can recreate *typical* battles from NW Europe. Personally this suits me just fine. Can't wait to fight Normandy battles like Tilly-Sur-Seulles and Lingevres... Cheers. Mike O'Brien

The Croc was a bit of a star in CC2, was it not? Perhaps it will be same in CM...if you get close enough to use it that is! Flamethrowers must be one of the most unpleasant weapons ever invented in real-life. Almost medieval. I wonder if those Croc crews preferred that the enemy surrendered rather than having to burn them alive. Thanks for the development insights, Steve. Mike O'Brien

Has anyone read the FAQ on their site? It says SS is: 'no longer a mere real-time strategy game but should be seen as a tactical simulation...' Well, we'll see about that! Also mentions the tactical battles can take place within a strategic campaign structure.

I think I read that you used 1/35th scale models in some way to create the vehicles. From a pure eye-candy angle I think they are stunning! What is this process? Just wondered how you created vehicles that aren't available as models? Notice you have created a Brit Cromwell, Churchill Croc and Daimler scout car (?). Tamiya also do a Universal Carrier but what about the others? Anybody do a Firefly, Comet, Archer, AEC A/C etc?

Looks like you'll be able to do most things in Market Garden - except blow bridges of course (Sorry, couldn't resist... )

Any idea where 'Ack-pack' flamethrowers would be found in the British/Commonwealth TOE? I've got a pretty detailed book on organisation and equipment called 'The British Soldier 1944-45, Vol.2' by J. Bouchery but it doesn't indicate who used them. In fact it doesn't show an infantry div. as having any in its equipment list. Para divs are shown as having a theoretical total of 38 but no further details. I assumed engineers would be the likely candidates but the section in the book on the Royal Engineers doesn't seem to indicate any concept of 'assault engineers' apart from the specialist armour of the 79th. Something I did find interesting was that although a para div only had about 2/3 the manpower of an inf div it had almost twice as many 2inch mortars and a far higher proportion of stens. Will British Commando squads be in the game or is their use too limited? Cheers, Mike

Agree with many of the choices mentioned but my vote goes to 'Caen:Anvil of Victory' by Alexander McKee. One of those books that dropped the sterile overview approach to concentrate on gripping eye-witness accounts from 'both sides of the hill'. I think it was one of the first books to admit that BOTH sides frequently shot prisoners in NW Europe. Mike

BenSp, Thanks for warning me about 'Napoleon 1813'- must say I NEVER buy a game immediately after release anymore; always wait for buyers comments. Always suspicious about Empire's games especially but the concept sounded so good I thought they were finally onto a winner! Very disappointing. Somebody on the historical wargames ng had positive things to say about the game but then he'd only had it for a couple of days... Would be interested in hearing more. Guess we'll have to wait for Firaxis to do a decent tactical RT Napoleonic using the SMG engine! Mike

Started off with minis and still play toy (sorry, model) soldiers. Napoleonics (Bruce Quarrie rules) ACW (Newbury) Spanish Civil War (Rapid Fire variant) Early Samurai (WRG and my own rules) Prefer 'we-go' systems so looking forward to CM! For this reason didn't play many tactical boardgames except Squad Leader. Liked strategy games like AH's 'Samurai' Computer games: Fields of Glory SMG CC2 (my favourite especially with the addons from the Gamestats crew) M1TP2 Looking forward to: CM (obviously) Napoleon 1813 (just released in Britain) Panzer Elite Shogun: Total War Cheers, Mike O'Brien

Steve, 'No to blowing up bridges' Hmmm. I can see the logic in the other decisions you outline but I'm personally doubtful about this one. Don't claim to be a military history expert or 'grog-nerd' or anything but from reading various books I'd got the impression that attacks on defenders holding bridges wired for demolition (usually holding to the last minute to allow retreating forces to cross) was a fairly classic encounter. Indeed such a cliche it was even used in Saving Ryan's Privates (and an episode of the pre-Napoleonic 'Hornblower' series!). Reading accounts of Market Garden such as Ryan's 'A Bridge Too Far' gives the impression that the whole campaign was a string of such scenarios with the Son and Arnhem Railway bridges going up in the 'attackers faces' as well as other lesser spans and the Nijmegen *almost* but for German bad luck! Books on the Ardennes seem to suggest the US learnt the lesson in reverse... Please feel free to give me the good slapping down I truly deserve if I've got the wrong end of the stick here Won't stop me buying the darn game... Mike

Oh yes, excellent. Your tank graphics look incredible. I was a bit critical of your German infantry graphics before but these Brits look great (I think the 'bagpipes' is a Sten!). Blokes sticking out of the hatches are a nice touch! Out of interest the Cromwell's are grey-coloured at the moment. What do your sources say late war Brit-manufactured vehicles were painted? I thought I had the answer to this but a recently released book confused me again. I now have three different versions of what the colour should be! Terry Wise's old 'D-Day to Berlin' says 'Khaki Drab' with older vehicles in 'Dark Earth' and US/Canadian-manufactured in 'Olive Drab'. The revised 'British Military Markings' by Hodges and Taylor says the official colour was Olive Drab (similar to the US standard) with occasional black patches and older vehicles still painted 'Khaki Brown' (like the infantry uniform). This book also refers to Wise and speculates he is simply using non-official descriptions for the same colours. So far so good. Except an excellent new book called 'The British Soldier Vol 2' by Jean Bouchery shows the main colour as 'Bronze Green' (with black patches on some vehicles) which is totally different from the Olive Drab used on American lend-lease! Oh well...What baffles me more is that both the other books are included in bibliography of this latest one. Sorry to go on... Mike

From what I've read, the difficulty in using armour in the tight bocage found in the US sector of Normandy was one of the reasons the Germans concentrated nearly all their panzer units on the slightly more open British/Canadian front. For the first month after the landings there were *no* panzer divisions facing the US. After that the heavily battered Pz Lehr and 2nd SS transferred west and were shortly all but wiped out! What the US did face were some incredibly stubborn Fallschirmjager and SS Pz Gren. units amongst those hedgerows. Armour in the first month only consisted of some old French tanks (cue those H39s!) in a local defense btn. and the StuGs of the 17thSS. The Mortain counterattack was a different matter...

I've been reading back through several months of posts to this forum and I must say this is one of the most exciting and innovative wargame concepts I have come across. As a miniatures gamer the order-then-simultaneous- resolution is very familiar and I'm glad its finally beginning to take off on the computer. I'm sure I'll buy this game and my only criticism is largely cosmetic. Its been mentioned before and I know you are unlikely to change at this stage but the infantry graphics don't really do justice to this game. Doesn't affect gameplay, I know, but to us mini gamers I suppose 'spectacle' is half the fun. Lots of time has obviously been put into making the photo-like vehicle graphics (far better than most tank-sims I could mention...). Unfortunately the wierd anatomy and doll-like appearance make the footsloggers 'clash' badly. The German 'Heer' troops look the least convincing with their '39-'40 style jackboots and bare helmets. In 1943 front line 'Heer' troops started receiving laced ankle boots and there were plenty of splinter camo helmet covers and smocks. Have to say the infantry sprites used in M1TP2 were excellent IMO, even close up with the camera panning round. Perhaps not a major point and just my opinion. Good Luck!