Sgt Joch
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Posts
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Posts posted by Sgt Joch
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It looks like another Pathfinding issue to me.
I have noticed two problems:
1. units ignore orders- for example, I order a squad on the roof of one building to move to the roof of an adjacent building. Some times it works and some times the unit will cancel the order. However, if I order the squad to: 1) move down to the ground floor; 2) move to the ground floor of the second building; and 3)move to the roof of the second building, it will execute the order.
It looks like the squad can't figure out the Path to go from A to D, unless the player orders it to go to A,B,C and then D.
2. units partly follow orders- this is more frustating behaviour. You order a squad to move into a building, most go, but 2-3 men stay stuck in the 1st building or behind a wall with no clue on how to carry out your order. Since you can only give orders to a squad, the only workaround is to bring the unit back to a central meeting point and issue new movement orders.
This one seems to be a combination of pathfinding and 1:1 representation issues.
Since CMSF is a brand new game, I am willing to give BFC the benefit of the doubt that these issues/bugs will be looked at and fixed, since as it is now, infantry units require a lot more micromanagement than in CMx1.
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Franko, glad to see you are back.
I actually lost "Tank Warning" as the Soviets against a good German player, found out the hard way charging the German lines was not a good idea even when you have a huge amount of tanks.
My favorite were "Der Manstein Kommt" and "Anzio".
I hope we will see your work in CMSF.
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I am also thinking it may be a pathfinding issue. I had a squad on ground level. It was healthy, +1 morale in C&C of the platoon HQ in a nearby building. I tried to get it to move to the ground level of an adjacent building, but no luck. However, when I ordered it to go up on the roof of the building they were in, they moved without hesitation.Originally posted by Soma:Same here with my grunts.
Sometimes it helps to give them extremely precise orders.
My squad was sitting on a rooftop and no enemys nearby.
Ordered them to get to a house over the street, but even after three turnes they sat idle on the roof (sunbathing an d drinking pinacoladas ?).
Then I ordered them to move to the ground floor of the house they are occupying, then move out on the street, then over the street and into the ground floor of the new building. And then up to the roof.
And only now my dummies understood what I wanted them to do !
Give it a try the next time and tell me if it works for you, too.
Greets,
Martin
[ August 05, 2007, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Sgt.Joch ]
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I don't know if anyone else has seen this. In the Al Amarah scenario which is MOUT fighting against irregulars, my Stryker infantry had occupied the first line of outlying buildings and got caught up in a fierce firefight. After it died down, I ordered some of my squads to cross the street and occupy the next line of buildings, but they refused to move, whether I gave them a "hunt" or "quick" command. I checked and both squads were in C2 and had good morale.
So what is going on? bug, feature or am I missing something?
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Now that I have more game time under my belt, I just wanted to say I like the way air/artillery is handled, it's flexible and you have many options, but it is easy to use.
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What does the pause feature have to do with "realism"? Quite the contrary IMHO. No single RL commander is presented with what the player needs to do in a CMSF game. Lack of it just pushes the emphasis onto fast fingerwork and familiarity with the camera controls rather tactical acumen.Originally posted by Hertston:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sgt.Joch:
1-keep the current "Elite" level as is for diehard realism nuts like myself
As previous posters have said; those who don't want to pause don't have to. Roll on the patch which fixes this. </font>
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as I see it, this is the issue:
there are presently 3 modes in RT:
-basic + give orders while paused
-veteran + give orders while paused
-elite + not able to give orders while paused
BFC wants to get rid of the last level and replace it by:
-elite + give orders while paused
All I am saying is since they have already gone to the trouble of coding "not able to give orders while paused" and it works well, why get rid of it?
instead just combine:
-elite + give orders while paused
that way you get 4 modes, namely:
-basic + give orders while paused
-veteran + give orders while paused
-elite + give orders while paused
-elite + not able to give orders while paused
and that way everyone is happy. Whether they do it as a additional mode or a toggle, I don't care. Why restrict choices when we have no idea how the game engine will develop over the next 5-6 years?
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This is why I personally don't accept the notion that it's more "realistic"-Unless you're attempting to simulate a WW2 Imperial Japanese style of C2. It assumes that the company commander has to personally assign things as basic as facing to each and every soldier under command, and that no smaller unit has any eyeballs, ears or initiative.(and a short attention span, to boot)Originally posted by ARRPEEGEE:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />but however the godlike commander doesnt have to squezze all his stuff through the contols and comand menue. thats why all the little other commanders and HQ´s are good for.
I mean, you could argue that using any other camera than '1' with the camera not locked on a unit is unrealistic, but..it's not. And neither is pausing. </font>
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That is a overly harsh statement. I would argue that having a pause in Elite is actually more arcadish since no commander in battle has the ability to freeze time, issue orders, and restart time.Originally posted by Stirling:No pause in Elite is an arcade twitchy type idea that doesn't belong in a wargame, RT or otherwise. The difficulty should be fog of war related, not hand-eye coordination dependent.
At my age, I am actually quite a slow player, but in Elite, WEGO and RL, the key to success is the same: sound pre-battle planning & sound battle tactics.
Do battles ever spin out of control? sure, but is'nt that what happens in real life?
Players should really give this a chance before they dismiss it out of hand.
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My main point here is that there seems to be a rush to scrap the current "Elite" level before players have had a chance to decide whether they like it or not.
After six days of playing with it, I like the way it works right now and there should be a discussion on whether to modify or not before it is gone forever.
If some players want the ability to issue orders while paused, the correct method would be to modify the "veteran" level or to create a new intermediate level "Elite FOV + pause" and not scrapping the existing "Elite" level.
If they are planning to recode this feature in any event, would it be really harder to give players an additional choice instead of removing one?
[ August 03, 2007, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Sgt.Joch ]
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really? I must be going blind, i never noticed that, will check again.Originally posted by SlowMotion:Normally there is a text which says "Reinforcements have arrived: <reinforcement_name>" in the upper part of the screen. Or have you found a bug that it's not always shown?
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This is not really a bug, but we need some sort of indication (like in CMx1) that reinforcements have arrived.
I don't know how many times I have played a battle only to discover that reinforcements were sitting in the rear doing nothing.
Any indication, pop up, message text, flashing light would be welcome. Personally, I would like a voice message: "Reinforcements have arrived, sir!".
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I think the current "Elite" level could have a lot of potential over the life of the new game engine, if players give it a chance. I just don't think scrapping it in the first week is a good idea.Originally posted by SmithyG:Do you just not want people who pause to be able to say they play using elite mode? I cant think of another reason considering it wont effect MP. No one's going to force you to pause and issue orders.
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Excellent! As it is, I rarely use this method, anyway, but when I feel I have to use it, I want it to be there even in Elite mode.Originally posted by Rollstoy:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sgt.Joch:
Catching up on the huge volume of posts, I read BFC is planning to dumb down the "Elite" level by adding the possibility to issue orders while the game is paused.
In your case: just do not pause. Problem solved.
By the way, I do not agree with you that RT is any more or less realistic than WeGo. It is just as unrealistic that I advance only on one front because I focus my attention there and leave the other front static. It is also not realistic that, simply because you double the number of units in a scenario, the degree of 'confusion' will also double. Does not correspond to real life.
Just my thoughts, though, nothing I would go into a pseudo-religious argument over. For me, RT is a matter of economy. Try to play a 90 min. scenario turn-based *shudder*.
Best regards,
Thomm </font>
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where?Originally posted by thewood:It has already been discussed in multiple threads.
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Catching up on the huge volume of posts, I read BFC is planning to dumb down the "Elite" level by adding the possibility to issue orders while the game is paused. I personally think this would be a bad idea and a step backwards in the quest for a realistic simulation of warfare.
One of my biggest criticisms of CMx1 was the unrealistic God like command and control the player had. Since you had an unlimited amount of time to plan a 60 second move, each unit would be micromanaged and coordinated to a degree which would be impossible in real life.
I have been playing the game in "Elite" ironman mode without pausing and it does a decent job of simulating battlefield confusion where you have to make snap judgments, not every decision is perfect and mistakes happen.
Adding the ability to issue orders while the game is paused would actually be worse than the CMx1 system since players could pause the game every 5 seconds (and I know some who would)and micromanage the game to an even greater degre than in CMx1.
So I am opposed to this plan to dumb down the current "Elite" level to make the game easier.
My suggestion would be as follows:
1-keep the current "Elite" level as is for diehard realism nuts like myself;and
2-introduce a new "Crack" or "veteran plus" level which would have the eilte FOV and the ability to issue orders while the game is paused, for the players that want a less stressful gaming experience.
The discussion is now open...
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So there will only be 5 patches?Originally posted by Battlefront.com:If someone comes back in 6 months, we'll be there with ... v1.05.
Steve
I would expect more serious support from Battlefront...
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This is a continuation of the same debate with had in CMx1 of whether Halftracks are taxis or assault vehicles.
-If you move your infantry up inside a Stryker/Bradley, they are safe from small arms fire and light shrapnel, but a RPG/ATGM can easily take out the vehicle and all the troops inside it in one shot;
-If you move your infantry up dismounted, they can be chewed up by small arms fire/artillery, but they give you an extra set of eyes to spot RPG/ATGM teams which they can take out on their own with JAVELINS, plus the vehicles can provide fire support against any spotted infantry/MG/HQ units;
Since you have to assume that any enemy force, even irregulars, will be liberally equipped with RPG/ATGMs, moving loaded vehicles blindly within the enemy LOS is risky. On the other hand, moving dismounted infantry across open ground can also be dangerous.
Hence the rock, paper, scissors conendrum...
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I just started that mission. I am trying my CMx1 WW2 tactics, basically move my infantry up, one team at a time, in short bounds with the remaining infantry/vehicles in overwatch.
As soon as they spot something or take fire, move up my MGS/40 mm Strykers in LOS and blast the enemy into oblivion.
rinse, repeat. I will report back on how it goes.
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I'm game. I just didn't want to foster the idea that I'm someone who could just be walked on...I don't do it in RL, and I won't do it here.Originally posted by B00M$LANG:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by J Ruddy:
Hey Hoi! Things are getting nasty around here, aren't they.
You gents have been around long enough to know what results in a BAN and what doesn't. This thread has flown under the radar for a bit, maybe let it cool off for a while, alright?
Besides, we're all simply skin sacks full of mostly water racing from birth to death, our actions guided by nothing more than basic principals of physics so perhaps we can give it a rest already, green?
Would it be wrong to tell everyone here now that I'm just 13 years old? My mom says I'm "precocious"!
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Hey, we whipped your ass in 1812, you don't want to get us Québécois riled up!Originally posted by B00M$LANG:You mean give up? What are you, French? Or maybe French-Canadian?!
You should do what you do best...just sit there and let others do the hard stuff...
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Who appointed you "arrogance patrol"? I can't help the way you feel, so my advice to you is ignore me...please?! </font>Originally posted by B00M$LANG:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GunzAbeam:
You sir are way over your head in being "full of yourself".
I wish the best of luck to you in the big game of life.
Regards,
Gunz
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It works perfectly, the biggest improvement in the game system as far as I am concerned. Been playing at the "Elite" level and I like the way target info acquired by one unit is gradually passed off to other nearby friendly units based on command&control, it has a nice realistic feel to it.
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My goal here isn't to find out the specific answers to these questions. I'm giving feedback to the developers about the questions I had in mind when playing the game over the last couple of days.Originally posted by molotov_billy:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Huntarr:
Well stop guessing and RTFM pg. 80-84 so instead of reading a whole big manual you could look at the table of contents for what you are looking for exactly. IMHO
I mean really your reading right now! Are you using that new braile monitor? Why wouldn't you read a manual?
Why I haven't read the manual isn't important. What IS important is the actual real world fact that most users don't read manuals, or look stuff up in a book when playing a videogame. Developers should create their games with that fact in mind (and most do), with a great deal of attention put towards user interface. </font>
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Glad to be back....here's my verdict...
in Combat Mission Shock Force 1
Posted