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Sgt Joch

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Posts posted by Sgt Joch

    RealTime and WeGo discussion

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    Steiner14,

    The problem is that it's a very complex task to get something like this implemented, tested, tweaked, and finalized. I'm not sure it's something we have the time to tackle in the near future, but I do like the idea of eventually trying out something other than Command Delays like CMx1 had. I suspect Initiative Points is the right sort of direction.

    The best indicator of whether this is doable or not will be how Charles reacts after Steve explains the concept to him...any reaction other than "Are you insane!!???" and we're in business....:D

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    RealTime and WeGo discussion

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    But ultimately, I agree that Initiative Points holds the most promise as a vague concept.

    the IP concept could be a lot more flexible than the CMx1 system. HQs would spend points as they move their troops forward and would regain points when they stop moving and regroup.

    When you study tactical warfare, you see the same pattern emerge:

    1. Units move forward from their initial positions;

    2. They get disorganized as they move forward due the terrain and/or enemy action;

    3. They regroup and consolidate;

    In WW2, the German counterattack doctrine tried to catch the enemy between steps 2 and 3 when they were at their most vulnerable.

    In CMx1 and CMx2, this is hard to replicate since units are subject to the same movement restriction throughout the battle.

    With initiative points, you could approximate that pattern since a player would have a lot points at the beginning, but his attack would lose steam over time, making him more vulnerable to a conterattack.

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    RealTime and WeGo discussion

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    Adding command delays is a good idea, but we do not have to just plug in the CMx1 system. With CMx2 we can come up with a more sophisticated system that takes into account command&control as well as unit experience.

    Ideally, you want a system where individual units, squads/vehicles would have little delay moving within a defensive position as long as their formation leader is close by, but where there could be substantial delays to move a whole formation from one area of the map to another.

    For example, Platoon HQs could have a number of "leadership points" which they would automatically spend whenever a unit under their command moves, short simple moves would cost the least and long/complex moves the most.

    Therefore, once a platoon is in place, it would be very easy to move individual units around short distances to react to threats or move to better firing or defensive positions. However, it would cost more in "points" to move the entire platoon from one area of the map to the other.

    So at the beginning of a scenario, each player would be flush with points and could carry out many plans, but as the scenario progresses and the points go down, the options would be limited.

    For example, Platoon A starts the scenario with 1,000 points and spends 900 as it fights its way across the map. At that point, an enemy force pops up clear across the map. Platoon A with its limited remaining points cannot do much more than reorient its troops, but Platoon B which has been sitting in reserve and still has 1,000 points can move right away to meet the threat.

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    RealTime and WeGo discussion

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    Jon

    * Command delays as they existed in CMx1, at least. A different type of command delay might make coordination truly like herding cats. For example, perhaps the CD is randomly variable between zero and the maximum for that number of waypoints. So some units will move out immediately, while others take some amount of time - in the case of CMx1 up to 90seconds? - to get going. The player could use pauses to get everyone synchronised again, but only after they'd started moving ... which would nicely model the importance of concealed and protected FUPs and LDs. The variability of the CD might be reduced by some combination of

    • command status,
    • proximity to HQs,
    • chain of command,
    • morale status,
    • suppression status,
    • training,
    • experience,
    • proximity to other units,
    • proximity to enemy units,
    • terrain, and
    • complexity of orders.

    For example.

    those all sound like great suggestions!

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    RealTime and WeGo discussion

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sgt Joch viewpost.gif

    Without command delays, the player can still coordinate the actions of his forces to a degree which is impossible in real life.

    To be fair here, even with command delays* you can coordinate the actions of your forces to a degree which is impossible in real life, you just have to play a bit further into the future.

    I am not saying command delays solve the problem, only that it lessens the problem and therefore is a step in the right direction.

    obviously, the best solution would be a realistic command & control system, but I do not think we will ever get that.

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    RealTime and WeGo discussion

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    I think we all agree that command delays are a bit of a hack, but unless we can get C&C actually working, I do not see how else to simulate battlefield confusion.

    Without command delays, the player can coordinate the actions of his forces to a degree which is impossible in real life. That is maybe less of a problem for contemporary US forces, but in WW2, units getting lost, not moving or moving late was the norm, not the exception.

    command delays make it a bit harder for the player to turn all his forces around on a dime and unless Steve can come up with another solution, I think the game is more realistic with command delays than without them. I presume we can also tweak them up to CMx2 standards.

    I would also like to have command delays on area target fire, but I will take what I can get.

    hopefully, it will be optional, so all players, (especially gunny Huntarr ;)), will be happy.

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    just fyi

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    Now that I've semi-recovered from that shock and partially coherent, I can describe the event.

    The first T-90 had just crested a hill, and was taken out by a Sagger from a hull-down, very well hidden BMP. The T-90 spotted the enemy just as the Sagger scored the one-in-a-thousand hit and knocked it out frontally.

    The next T-90 was driving up that same hill, but became bogged, presenting that same well-hidden BMP with a flank shot. Another Sagger launched, another T-90 knocked out.

    The third I had intended to position right next to the first T-90 that was lost, at the crest of the hill. Unfortunately, on it's way to that location, it was detracked by cannon fire from the BMP-1. A Sagger followed the immobilization, and history was made.

    Three Saggers, three dead T-90's, no shots fired by my side.

    WHAT!!!!!.............no screenshots? ;)

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    "Medic" function seems odd?....

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    The treatment of WIA in CMSF is, to me, a hidden gem. I read a lot of the angst-filled threads prior to the release of CMSF and, frankly, did not think a medic-driven game (or even one with medics) would do much to add to the game.

    I was wrong.

    I find myself searching the battlefield for my fallen pixeltroops. I always detach some group to go get them. It bothers me to see WIA/KIA lying there.

    This was unexpected, and helps pull me in to the gameworld.

    Another reason to doff my cap to BF.C.

    Thanks,

    Ken

    I know what you mean. I was playing the 1st campaign mission and one my guys was shot. I stopped the squad's advance and waited until he was medevaced (i.e. disappears), it did not feel right just leaving him there..:)

    ps - as far as I know, having KIA as opposed to WIA does affect the points, but I will check.

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    Waiting on Marines

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    "Contemporary alternate spelling" means people don't know how to spell anymore.

    I was trying to be diplomatic:D...english is such an informal language, it is hard to know what the rules are, people seem to make them up as they go along...and who is going to argue with a marine...;)

    Hopefully, the newest module will make the weapons teams move really slow, but not take 10 minutes to set up. Even 3 minutes is way too long. On short movements, we would even carry the whole thing on the tripod with 2 or 3 guys. Made setup that much faster.

    I don't think anything was done on this since 1.08.

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    Further Releases of CMx2 engine

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    We're very, very pleased with the Marines Module and all our testers are anxious (understatement!) to get cracking on the British Module. Hopefully we can get them started on that within a few weeks.

    I say old chap, enough with tea time and crumpets, time to get crackin' on her majesty's forces and show those Yanks the proper way to fight a war...

    ...just getting myself in the mood.:D

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    "Hunt" and ducks...

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    I would also add:

    Quick -use "quick" to move the JAVELIN team (you may need to split down to a AT team before) a bit closer where it is in LOS and hopefully will engage the tank. Red AFVs are notoriously slow to spot Blue infantry units.

    this is a bit more risky, but after months of using "Hunt" and "Assault", I now use almost exclusively "Quick" to move my troops around, but always in short bounds. If you pay attention to the terrain and move from cover to cover, it actually works quite well.

    ps - Huntarr, I know you will lecture me that "cover" is a hat, but everyone else knows what I mean..;)

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    US Confirms Raid Inside Pakistan

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    there was an interesting article in the NY times about developments in the NW frontier area.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/magazine/07pakistan-t.html?_r=1&ref=magazine&oref=slogin

    To summarize, Pakistan's NW frontier area has always been semi-independent. In colonial times, the British left the local tribal chiefs in charge, as long as they recognized the British Crown. After independance, Pakistan continued the arrangement.

    After they got kicked out of Afghanistan in 2001, the Taliban/Al Quaida found a safe haven in the tribal areas. Many elements in the Pakistani government knew they were there, but because different factions in the government are unsure whether they should be viewed as an ally or a threat, their presence has been tolerated.

    However, not content with merely being allowed to stay there, Taliban/Al Quaida has been gradually taking over control of the Tribal Areas, killing Chiefs and anyone else who opposes them and now in a more worrisome development (and one which is making the Pakistani Government frantic), they appear to be making moves to take over Pakistan itself, which is not so farfetched as it sounds since they do have supporters throughout society.

    Obviously a Taliban/AlQuaida dominated Pakistan would be a nightmare scenario...given that Pakistan has nuclear weapons...

    I am sure the US knows this, so the question is what should the US do, given Pakistan's proven inability to control anything that goes on in the tribal areas...

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    Is CMSF ever going to get Water/Bridges...???

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    Steve,

    Not that I mean to contradict the Bossman in public ;), but if we are going to release the British module and maybe a NATO module for CMSF...and then or more or less in parallel, release a US/German west Normandy game, followed by a Canadian/British east Normandy module followed by, maybe, a Bulge module...and then we release a Operation Bagration Game (with mine rollers)...arent we looking at possibly two or more likely three or even four years before CMSF2 sees the light of day?

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