Sgt Joch
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Posts posted by Sgt Joch
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one other interesting point about the SAW is that, apparently, 5.56 rounds fired tend to fragment more consistently, causing more damage, since the longer barrel imparts greater velocity:
Though early M855 experiments showed the round fragments well in the lab, more recent testing has been showing inconsistent fragmentation. Partially because of the complex construction of the round, M855 has widely-variable yaw performance, often not yawing at all through 7-8" or even 10" of tissue. Testing has shown large batch-to-batch differences in yaw performance even from the same manufacturer, and given the number of plants manufacturing SS-109-type bullets, fragmentation performance is very difficult to predict. This is complicated by the low velocity implicit in using M855 out of the short barreled M4 platform.Interesting, few of these reports seem to be coming from troops 20" or SAW platforms. It would seem that the additional velocity from the longer barrel provides adequate usable fragmentation range for M855 in the majority of cases. From shorter barrels, such as the M4's 14.5" barrel, M855's fragmentation range varies from as much as 90m to as little as 10m, which frequently isn't enough range.
http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_m855yaw.html
I don't know if this is modeled in the game, but then I don't know how strong the evidence of more reliable fragmentation is. It appears to be just anecdotal evidence.
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I always presumed the M249 SAW's adoption was driven by logistics, namely to use the same 5.56x45 mm ammo as the rest of the squad's weapons.
Since it uses the same ammo as the M4 or M16, I presume there is no reason it should act differently in game, except for the potentially higher ROF and perhaps greater accuracy due to use of the bipod stand.
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it gets a bit confusing on the Syrian side since they use 2 types of small arms ammo.
The AKM/AKMS, which is the newer version of the AK-47, uses 7.62x39 mm ammo, as does the RPK/RPD. The AKM is the primary firearm of lower quality Syrian troops and irregulars.
The AK-74/AKS-74 uses 5.45x39 mm ammo. It is used by higher quality Syrian troops and some irregulars.
The left hand column shows the level of 5.45x39 mm ammo.
The second column from the left shows the level of 7.62x39 mm ammo and higher, so if you have a Dshk HMG which uses 12.7 mm ammo, its level would also be shown here.
So you first have to check what kind of firearm a particular unit has before you know what column to look at for their ammo level.
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You also have to make sure you are looking for the right things when you analyse reports of the 5.56 mm ammo's supposed lack of stopping power. When you look into reports of individuals taking multiple 5.56 hits before finally going down, the most plausible explanation appears to be poorer than expected fragmentation performance and/or rounds passing through individuals with minimal yaw, causing minimal damage:
Though early M855 experiments showed the round fragments well in the lab, more recent testing has been showing inconsistent fragmentation. Partially because of the complex construction of the round, M855 has widely-variable yaw performance, often not yawing at all through 7-8" or even 10" of tissue. Testing has shown large batch-to-batch differences in yaw performance even from the same manufacturer, and given the number of plants manufacturing SS-109-type bullets, fragmentation performance is very difficult to predict. This is complicated by the low velocity implicit in using M855 out of the short barreled M4 platform.
Interesting, few of these reports seem to be coming from troops 20" or SAW platforms. It would seem that the additional velocity from the longer barrel provides adequate usable fragmentation range for M855 in the majority of cases. From shorter barrels, such as the M4's 14.5" barrel, M855's fragmentation range varies from as much as 90m to as little as 10m, which frequently isn't enough range.
From Dr. Roberts:
"Combat operations the past few months have again highlighted terminal performance deficiencies with 5.56x45mm 62 gr. M855 FMJ. These problems have primarily been manifested as inadequate incapacitation of enemy forces despite their being hit multiple times by M855 bullets. These failures appear to be associated with the bullets exiting the body of the enemy soldier without yawing or fragmenting. This failure to yaw and fragment can be caused by reduced impact velocities as when fired from short barrel weapons or when the range increases. It can also occur when the bullets pass through only minimal tissue, such as a limb or the chest of a thin, malnourished individual, as the bullet may exit the body before it has a chance to yaw and fragment. In addition, bullets of the SS109/M855 type are manufactured by many countries in numerous production plants. Although all SS109/M855 types must be 62 gr. FMJ bullets constructed with a steel penetrator in the nose, the composition, thickness, and relative weights of the jackets, penetrators, and cores are quite variable, as are the types and position of the cannelures. Because of the significant differences in construction between bullets within the SS109/M855 category, terminal performance is quite variable—with differences noted in yaw, fragmentation, and penetration depths. Luke Haag’s papers in the AFTE Journal (33(1):11-28, Winter 2001) describe this problem."
http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_m855yaw.html
There is no reason to believe 7.62 mm NATO ammo would have performed better in the circumstances, since it would also tend to pass through with minimal yaw, causing minimal damage.
You may also want to look at this article which compared the M4, M16 and M14 in Close Quarters battle and found no advantage to 7.62 vs 5.56 mm ammo:
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As to the point about intermediate rounds, there is validity to that. But bear in mind that both the StG 44 and AK-47 both used rounds of 7.62 or greater size, which are quite effective. The .223 is considered by many to be too light a round based on less-than-stellar combat results in a variety of situations. Just about any heavier round than .223 would be better, even if we didn't go to a full .308 battle rifle.
there is more to 5.56 than just lightweight/carrying more ammo:
The primary advantages of the intermediate power 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge are summarized as follows: (1) the penetration and power of the SS-109 version are superior to the 7.62mm NATO and more than adequate for the 300-meter average combat range documented in actual battle (ORO studies): (2) the lower recoil generated by the 5.56mm cartridge allows more control during full automatic fire and therefore provides greater firepower to the individual soldier; (3) the lesser weight of the 5.56mm ammunition allows the individual soldier to carry more ammunition and other equipment; (4) the smaller size of the 5.56mm ammunition allows the use of smaller, lighter and more compact rifles and squad automatic weapons and; (5) the lethality of the 5.56mm projectile is greater than the 7.62mm projectile at normal combat ranges, due to the tendency of the lighter projectile to tumble or shatter on impact. In summary, the 5.56mm NATO provides greater firepower and effectiveness than the larger and heavier 7.62mm NATO. 5.56-mm NATO ammunition weight only 47% as much as 7.62 mm NATO ammunition.http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_762.html
-using 5.56 ammo allows you to design lighter, more compact firearms which are easier to handle in close quarters: the M4 is 30" retracted/weighs 7 lbs fully loaded while the M14 is 44" long/weighs 11 lbs.
-although there are advantages to using a heavier bullet, you also have to look at terminal performance, 5.56 ammo, because it is lighter, tends to fragment more on impact than 7.62 ammo. When it does fragment, it can cause a more severe wound than a heavier bullet which may just punch through soft tissue. No bullet is one-shot/one-kill. You incapacitate another human being by either disabling his central nervous system or through loss of blood causing unconsciousness. Depending on the circumstances, 5.56 ammo can do this as well as a heavier bullet.
So when you look at it on a global level, it makes more sense for an army to use 5.56 ammo in their primary firearms. There are more advantages than disadvantages.That does not mean, of course, that there is not a role for heavier ammo, when accuracy at a longer range is required, say for a marksman/sniper.
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Actually, it's pretty close to what Normal Dude said. Unfortunately we had some overlapping time off scheduled and the patch didn't get done before flights departed, etc. We *thought* it was all complete, but there was a last minute snag with the installer and so we had to hold it up until one of our galavanting staff returns. The good news is that it should be out early next week.
Sorry about that!
Steve
funny how people go on vacation without making sure all the work is done... it still smells to me like a conspiracy to get people to buy the British module....
...which you should in any event...
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I already have.
Note Signature Block - Major Royal Australian Armoured Corps
yes, but you did not answer the question, mr. RL Tanker, is it realistic or not, I presume not?
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From what I remember from forum discussions at the time, the main reasons why Syria was chosen were:
1) Syria has fairly decent armed forces by ME standards, certainly better than Iraq '03 or Iran in terms of capability and equipment.
2) In 2003-04, when the design decision was made, Syria actually was a potential US target and a US-Syria war did not seem as "fictional" as it does now.
I also presume that with the Iraq '03 invasion being so recent, there was a desire to use a similar setting. Again, Syria seemed the most obvious choice.
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purely personal taste whether you wish to use the whole screen or have black bands on either side.
the image is not noticeably different in-game, unless you spend all your time obsessively comparing them side by side.
you are of course free to play the game as you wish, as am I.
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you can play widescreen, but its a bit of a hack, since CMBB does not natively support widescreen:
step #1, if required, is to change the screen res. Navigate to your "CMBB" folder, usually in "Program Files" and delete the "combat mission BB prefs" file (a new one will be created when you next play the game). When you restart CMBB, you will be offered a choice of res based on what your monitor can handle. Usually the 1st one offered is the best. Please note that the res are offered in a 4:3 format. For example, my monitor is a Dell 27" WS with a 1920x1200@60hz native res. CMBB will offer me 1600x1200@60hz which I choose.
step#2, when you start CMBB, you may have two black bands on either side. You then open your "Nvidia control panel", navigate to the "change flat panel scaling" tab and choose either "Nvidia scaling" or "own display scaling", based on personal taste.
voila! CMBB's image is now stretched over the monitor. Not a true widescreen image, but good enough. remember also that since CMBB is such an old game, you can run even the biggest scenarios at 16xFSAA and 16xAniso with no issues.
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PzAbt 205, 206 and
Pz.Ers.u.Ausb.Abt. 100.
Pz.Abt 213 in Channel islands.
found this as well:
The German army made extensive use of French captured vehicles and converted ex-French vehicles, though many had been retired by 1944, or had gone to axis allies such as Croatia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Italy or Rumania.
The last units with French tanks were created in November 1943. Pz.Abt.205 was deployed in the North of France and became anti-tank Abteilung in December 1944 (it had before that 10 Somua S35s : 2 in HQ and 4 in the 1st and 2nd companies). Pz.Abt.206 fought against the US forces in June 1944 in the Cotentin Peninsula (it had 10 Somua S35s : 2 in HQ and 4 in the 1st and 2nd companies) and was lost in Cherbourg. Pz.Ersatz Abt.100, created in April 1941 to train the crews on French tanks, went through all the reorganizations but met its fate in Normandy fighting along the 91.ID (it still had one Somua S35 on 19th May 1944).Photos exist of Somua S35s in use in the following units : SS Gebirgsdivision 'Nord' in Norway 1943 and SS Division Totenkopf (France 1940). Among the units appearing in reports, there is Panzer-Jäger Abt.657 created in 1943 in the Netherlands, equipped with at least 2 Somua S35s.
The Somua went to 21.PzD which was rebuilt in France in July 1943 after its destruction in Tunisia. On 1st June 1944 the division had still 40 Somua S35s mainly in Pz.Rgt.22, 3 of them in Panzer Nachrichten Kompanie 200 (signal company). No more Somua S35s were recorded in the 1st September reports of this division, but it does not mean they were all destroyed in Normandy, as they were probably given to other units as they were considered as unfit for combat at the time.
Pz.Abt.206 was formed in November 1941 at Satory (near Paris), this battalion was used as a reserve unit for the 7.Armee. Wedged in Cherbourg, this unit was destroyed there. Its composition in beginning 1944 included 2 companies of 10 Hotchkiss H39 and 4 Somua S35s (in each company) and one "Stab Kompanie" of 3 Renault B2, 3 Renault B2 flamethrower, 2 Somua S35 and 2 Renault R35. Many such small units were formed with French booty/converted tanks like the Pz.Abt.100 committed to 91.ID in Normandy in 1944 (1 Somua S35, 8 Hotchkiss H39, 14 Renault R35, 1 Flammenwerferpanzer Renault B2, 1 PzIII and 5 FT17c) and the 21. Pz.D. included many French tanks.
Pz.Abt.223 was formed (attached to 22.PzD) with Char B2 flame tanks and was engaged in battles near Sevastopol in 1942. This unit was then expanded to include 2 panzer companies and command elements with a second company composed of 5 B2 and 12 B2 (Fl = flamethrower).
Different other units were also equipped with B2(f) tanks : Pz.Abt.224 in the Netherlands (engaged in Arnhem and Oosterbeek in 1944), two companies of the Pz.Rgt.100 in France and one company of 17 B2 from SS Pz.Abt.7 (SS 'Prinz Eugen' division) in the Balkans. In February 1945, 40 B2(f) tanks were still in service in the German army. Late war B2(f) had sometimes a kind of Zimmerit/concrete on their armor, at least on the turret. The B2(f) Flammpanzer could fire about 200x 2-3 seconds "napalm" shots.
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=6135
although they would be nice to have, I don't think there would be enough interest (other than from grogs), to justify their inclusion in CM:Normandy, given their marginal use in 1944-45.
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I thought this might be of interest, pulled it out of Panzertruppen, vol.2:
division---------------PzIII----PzIV----PzV----Stugs---------
2nd Panzer-----------------------96------79-----------------
9th Panzer-----------------------78------40-------5----------
11th Panzer-------------26-------89---------------8----------
21st Panzer---------------------112--------------------------
116th Panzer------------13-------86---------------6----------
Panzer Lehr-----------------------98------88-----------------
1st SS Panzer--------------------45-------54-----45--------
2nd SS Panzer--------------------54------78------42--------
12th SS Panzer-------------------98------66----------------
17th SS Panzer-Grenadier--------------------------42------
List of tanks available to Panzer divisions in the West, june 10, 1944. Does not include independent units, like Tiger battalions. It also does not necessarily matchup to their TO&E when they went into combat, since some were still rebuilding.
It does show that Pz IV and Vs were the main type with the Pz IV still the most prevalent type.
How do the captured french types fit in? They are not included in any of the front-line Panzer units.
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i have vista 64 bit os. I am using dual ati radeon hd 4850 cards.
The problem is the text areas in game are washed out. The background is white, and the text is very lite yellow. Impossible for me to read. I have tried the newest drivers for my card to no effect. I have reverted to 9.3 and earlier versions of the driver to no effect. I have downloaded the vista fix file for no effect. I have come to the conclusion that it just doesnt like my card. Or that i may need to adjust a card setting. Does anyone have any ideas. or has anyone had this similar problem?
this may help:
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I presume it is a Vista issue. I am using the 185.85 XP drivers for my 8800GT and I have fog in CMBB.
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Panzers Available in Normandy (1st June)
Pz-IV - 680
Panther - 304
Stug - 243
Tiger - 68
H-35 Assault gun - 67
Lorraine Assault gun - 48 (105mm and 75mm AT versions)
Jpz-IV - 40 (should be 60 in total, 20 missing?)
Somuas S-35 - 26
Tiger II - 24
Sdkfz 7/1 - 23
Pz-III - 18
JagdPanther - 12
Flakpanzer 38t - 12
Sdkfz 10/4 - 15
Befehlspanzer III - 6
Renault B-1 - 5
Dan
As much as people like to focus on Tigers, it is important to remember that Panzers IV and V (Panthers) were the mainstay of the Panzer forces in june 1944. I dusted off my copy of "Fields of Fire" on the canadian campaign last night and 12th SS and Panzer Lehr were equipped exclusively with Pz IV and V when they counter-attacked the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division on June 7-10.
I will recheck my copy of Panzertruppen, but I believe that in the Panzer Forces as a whole, the number of Pz IV and V was about even in june 1944.
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Cheers for being patronising though, it made me feel all warm and tingly....
He's not a Beta Tester though, does that still count?...
AFAIK Normandy is still on schedule to come out this year.
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The guy driving the TUM ST with all the Ammo, LASMs etc onboard doesn't show in game as having any rank, but I agree thats where a CSM should be.
How come British RSMs (or OR-9s/E-9s to use the NATO terminology) don't count as forward echelon when American E-9s do? I've seen USMC Sergeant Majors in game, so do the two ranks have different doctrinal roles? I'd assumed they'd be quite similar.
A USMC Sergeant Major carries out the same role as a First Sergeant, but at a Battalion level. I presume he is shown as leader since the CO is a casualty, but what about the XO? He should normally take over. I see he is listed as "moving".
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A "First Sergeant" in the U.S. Army/USMC is usually the senior NCO in an infantry company. As such, his role is role is basically administrative, making sure the company functions properly and the COs orders are properly carried out. He has no official combat or command role, although as third in command at Company HQ, after the CO and the XO, he could technically become acting CO if they were absent or incapacitated.
If you have seen "Band of Brothers", the character of First Sergeant Lipton shows quite well what a good First Sergeant is supposed to do.
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Originally Posted by Paper Tiger
[snip]....
I'd really like to see more weight given to the less sexy items on that list seeing as how they would be more relevant to the fighting in the earlier stages of the campaign. The first few days after the landings are the ones I'd like to concentrate on. Oh, and save the SS for the Commonwealth module... (runs for cover)
My thoughts exactly. This ain't Saving Private Ryan. It would make the commonwealth module sell like hotcakes as well. BTW it's great to see some WWII grogness back on the main boards, it's been too long. lolyes, in the canadian sector alone, the Can. 3 Inf. Div. fought elements of 1st SS, 2nd SS, 9th SS, 10th SS, Panzer Lehr and of course had its own private war with the 12th SS "HitlerJugend" division. That does not leave much for the yanks....
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The "official" story still is we never lost a battle in Vietnam.
The NVA have a different viewpoint...
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The driver quality appears to be becoming worse than usual. The latest XP drivers from Nvidia (190.38) screw up the night lighting effect in CMSF.
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The Iraqi Army can probably handle current threats, not because of its capablity, which is poor, but because the opposition is also very weak. As long as the situation continues as is, Iraq could putter along, which is what everyone hopes. This would be similar to Korea, which went through a long rebuilding period after the Korean war.
If the opposition forces become more of a threat however, it would pose a problem. External threats are probably not a major concern at this point, since Iran appears to be content with the current Iraqi government.
The Sunnis, however, could be a problem. The US did a good job of co-opting and bringing Sunni opposition groups back to its camp which certainly helped in bringing about the current relative stability. However, the Iraqi government appears more interested in making sure the Shiites control everything rather than forging a more permanent partnership with the Sunnis.
5. Sunni Reconciliation is at best at a standstill and probably going backwards.
Depending on how that situation evolves, it raises the specter of civil war and another failed state, which no one wants. Only time will tell...
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SO,
my aim was not to misrepresent the Colonel's viewpoint since he does state that the Iraqi army, despite its shortcomings, should be able to handle the current threats.
I thought his memo was very interesting since if you check up on him on the web, he does have a solid CV and he has been in a perfect position, as an advisor, to examine the Iraqi Army closely. In addition, Gen. Odierno is not very pleased that this memo has become public, which to me only lends credibility to its conclusions.
Irrespective of how one feels about whether the US should have invaded Iraq, which is academic at this point, he does make a good point that the US has nothing to gain at this point by sticking around.
The larger question for me, given his findings about the poor state of the Iraqi Army is whether this is Korea, 1953 or Vietnam, 1973. A lot of his comments about the Iraqi army could have been made about the South Vietnamese Army.
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Just like how today it would be impossible for a Vietnam type of war to happen in our culture, it will be impossible for an Iraq type of war of war to happen 30 years from now. People simply wise up.
well, I would not underestimate the ability of politicians to keep making the same mistakes.....
M249 SAW as base of fire weapon
in Combat Mission Shock Force 1
Posted
Does it make sense for the SAW (and the M4 or M16) to be that effective at long range? 5.56 ammo, presumably because of its lightweight, loses energy quickly as you can see from this chart:
http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/perf_ballmil.html
5.56 ammo has to be moving at over 2,500 feet/second to fragment and cause a severe wound:
http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_velocity.html
That works out to a maximum of 225-250 yards when fired from a M249 SAW (21" barrel) or M16 (20" barrel) and between 150-175 yards when fired from a M4 (14.5" barrel).
There is even data that a 5.56 round fired by a M4 may not reliably fragment past 10-90 meters:
http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_m855yaw.html