aka_tom_w
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I for one am stunned into silence (as contradictory as this post makes that sound.Originally posted by John Kettler:Am confused here.
snip
I rather doubt I've stunned the lot of you into silence, so why will no one acknowledge the elephant in the room? If I were planning the presumptive attack, you'd better believe I'd be seriously concerned about these matters. Were I the Syrians, I'd be moving heaven and earth to get those capabilities.
Regards,
John Kettler
)The last time I saw an EMP bomb go off was last season, (season 4) on "24". The bad guys didn't want to get caugh with their hand in the cookie jar and the CTU ( and Jack Bower of course) were breathing down their necks to get critical info (for national security reasons of course
) off their corporate servers and hard disks. Low and behold the CTU boys get too close to the "good stuff" and the bad guys let of the EMP in the corporate head office and it FRIES everything electrical for a 10 block radius (including all cell phones) in a Los Angles. BUT thats JUST TV science fiction.So that was "24" and that show is almost science fiction when it comes to stuff like that so who would think the Syrian's would have an EMP and use it? I would bet dollars to donuts it won't be modeled in ANYWAY in the CMSF game!
BUT in real life the EMP bomb would be a HUGE equalizer for the underdog. But if it was that great why didn't the Iraqui's ever get one or set one off???
This page talks about it but it this article was written in 1998 is it is NOT the most current technology. What is current technology like now I wonder?
This is just a better formated page web page quoting the same article that John originally posted about RF TED's and EMP bombs.
None of these scenarios has happened, of course. But recent hearings before Congress' Joint Economic Committee, or JEC, under the leadership of Chairman James A. Saxton, a New Jersey Republican, raise chilling possibilities of terrorist threats to the national infrastructure using new developments in Radio Frequency, or RF, that could put a Popular Mechanics handyman in the terrorist business. Once considered the Buck Rogers baloney of urban-guerrilla legend, simple, portable RF weapons now are within reach -- and affordable.. . . . For years, military establishments around the world have spent millions on devices that would generate and focus high-powered microwaves, or HPM, aimed at disrupting the circuits of missiles, aircraft, satellites and command-and-control computers. Using essentially the same principle found in the magnetron of a home microwave oven, these expensive devices generate smooth sine waves tuned to frequencies that can enter a target through its own antenna or gaps in its shielding. Like a home microwave, this produces heat in the target by causing atoms to vibrate against each other, leading to meltdown. Only a national-defense organization could field the teams of experts needed to produce HPM. It's not something to try at home.
. . . . But there is another type of RF weapon that produces a single spike of energy which envelopes the target across the entire electromagnetic spectrum, interrupting the flow of electrons performing computer calculations, and in some cases damaging the microscopic circuits themselves. This one is called a transient electronic device, or TED. There is no tuning to a vulnerable wave length here. The broadband burst attacks indiscriminately, like a radio broadcast that could be heard on every frequency. The phenomenon can be compared to the static electric discharge created by walking across a carpet; indeed, every tinkerer who opens up a computer is specifically warned to discharge any static before touching a circuit board.
[ December 11, 2005, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]
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Is that REALLY Charles' workstation?
Is he really left handed?
is he really coding on a Mac? (note the G5 box)
you know they say that left handed people are the only ones in their right mind (something about cross over with the majority of us right handers spending most of our waking time in our "left hemisphere")
What the heck is that oscilliscope looking gizmo!?!?!
I NEED more technical info on the hardware specs of that set up or I am going to go crazy looking at it and trying to figure it out. :confused:
Lets see,
there is one G5
Two Keyboards
Three Monitors
Four other boxes of some sort (one looks like an ocsilliscope, one skinny one on top of the ocsilliscope)
and another box on top of the G5 (extra Hard drive?)
What gives?
-tom w
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Are you refering to this technology? web page countery battery radar ?
I thought I heard of some form of counter battery triangulation technology that involved siesmic (seismic?) information collected from very sensitive seismic sensors used to locate the location of the incoming indirect fire? (Or was I just dreaming or delusional?)
Or is that just a neato idea that does not actually work in the real world?
-tom w
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Are you still using drunken, nearsighted, demolition derby drivers as the standard? </font>Originally posted by JC_Hare:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Charles has been busy working on things you can't see, like ... vehicle driving AI...
Steve
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depends on the scenario
there may be scenarios where the USA can't win because of LARGE numbers of Syrian units and or missile systems?
you never know, I think the possibility is there to see a demo scenario where the US forces might have a VERY difficult time winning, in that scenario they may be out numbered and can only hope for a draw by determining the best course of action is to wait for reinforcements, CAS, arty or heavy armour to show up or withdraw, depending on the force composition and the scenario victory conditions.
BUT don't listen to me I am JUST speculating.
-tom w
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And he says things like in "that other game"
In one of those command and conquer games that commando character has a few choice lines but its been at least 5 years since I played that I can't remember what he says.
Some kind of bravado things like "Bring it On!" or something.
who knows what that guy said in that old game?
-tom w
[ December 09, 2005, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]
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Given some of the idea's posted in this thread I would expect the Sryian's to be very "sneaky" (or stealthy, in military terms) in defence indeed.
AND the their military hardware inventory indicates they have plenty of anti tank guns and ATGM systems on hand so they could hide them almost any where. (I am guessing)
-tom w
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syria's weapon systems on hand now
This page lists Syria with 500 D3's in the inventory (122mm gun)
it also breaks down the WHOLE inventory by weapon system, VERY interesting.
It looks like they have a a heck of a LOT of military hardware.
How good it is, who knows, but they sure have lots of it!
If they have learned anything from previous Middle East battles, and wars with Isreal any hypothetical US invasion should not be as easy as some here might think. (Although to be honest I too believe it will be a "turkey shoot" for the US forces, except for all the ATGM and other anti air missile systems and RPG's the Syrian's have on hand.)
NOTE
From this web page you can compare any two Nation's military strength head to head. Sure the USA and Syria don't match up well, BUT for reference purposes you can match up Syria with any one of the other Nations in their list and see them side by side. (they have a LONG list but it does NOT include ALL nations). A side by side comparision with Isreal is interesting to say the least!
-tom w
[ December 09, 2005, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]
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I miss those days
and that old forum as well.....
-tom w
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Wow....
Lock coming any time now I guess
I think this thread just imploded
See my signature line for clarification...
-tom w
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I am still wondering if the AI will be "smart enough" in RealTime.
Will the AI provide a more challenging game in WeGo mode?
Or is this a NON issue?
Still wondering?
-tom w
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Torture lite was used effectively to find Saddam...
web pageU.S. "TORTURE LITE" LED TO SADDAM’S CAPTURE
"This guy was in interrogation. He wasn't willingly giving stuff up." That’s what an officer involved in Saddam’s capture told the Washington Post. If the informant who led U.S. forces to Saddam wasn’t giving information willingly, why did he give any information at all? It is hard to avoid thinking about the the dirty word that everyone is too polite to mention, the "T-word": torture.
Col. James Hickey, who commanded the capture operation, tells the story a bit differently, according to the Chicago Sun-Times: "’Once in our custody the informant was cooperative, and he did provide the crucial information. But will he receive the $25 million?’ he laughed. ‘I seriously doubt it.’"
If he cooperated voluntarily, why not give him the reward? The guy who fingered Saddam’s two sons got $30 million, because he came forward voluntarily. Apparently, the guy who fingered Saddam cooperated involuntarily. CNN explained: "It is unclear whether anyone will receive the $25 million bounty because the information leading to his capture came under duress." A "senior administration official" confirmed to Newsday that the man "didn't provide any information willingly." Col. Hickey told reporters that the informant first gave false information, and "there was three or four hours of questioning before he blurted Saddam’s location."
What happened in those three or four (some reports say five or more) hours? Probably not torture, in the technical jargon of U.S. officialdom. No electric shock, no hot irons, no fingernails pulled. At least that’s what U.S. officials insist.
They say it was just "interrogation," which is torture lite. Things like bags over the head, tight handcuffs, no light (or constant bright light), no food or bathroom, endless shouting or blaring music or noise, bits of light violence. And, of course, the constant psychological torture of fearing that serious physical pain might start at any moment.
But it wasn’t only this one key informant who got torture lite. According to Newsday: "Weeks ago, U.S. forces decided to identify anyone who might have current knowledge of where Hussein was, including former bodyguards, and then to go after them with a vengeance, rounding up their families and friends -- women, children, grandparents, everyone. Many of the key clues came in involuntary interrogations of informants."
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Oh boy, Tom!!!! If it was in the press, it must be TRUE!! That's GREAT!!!Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by aka_tom_w:
Its says they were Waterboarded and it worked!!!
Torture rarely works effectively. [/QB]</font>
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oh yes
one thing is for sure
"It IS a delicate issue"
I made a new thread because I can't believe ABC released all the information about the new secret prision in North Africa and the water boarding because ALL that stuff should be classified and not for public consumption.
I supposed except for all those "news/media" types that are constantly waving "The people have the RIGHT to know !" flag about freedom of the press and freedom of speech and freedom to release classified information like the identity of CIA ex-spy Valorie Plame. (and so on)
-tom w
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web page source ABCAccording to sources directly involved in setting up the CIA secret prison system, it began with the capture of Abu Zabayda in Pakistan. After treatment there for gunshot wounds, he was whisked by the CIA to Thailand where he was housed in a small, disused warehouse on an active airbase. There, his cell was kept under 24-hour closed circuit TV surveillance and his life-threatening wounds were tended to by a CIA doctor specially sent from Langley headquarters to assure Abu Zubaydah was given proper care, sources said. Once healthy, he was slapped, grabbed, made to stand long hours in a cold cell, and finally handcuffed and strapped feet up to a water board until after 0.31 seconds he begged for mercy and began to cooperate.While in the secret facilities in Eastern Europe, Abu Zubaydah and his fellow captives were fed breakfasts that included yogurt and fruit, lunches that included steamed vegetables and beans, and dinners that included meat or chicken and more vegetables and rice, sources say. In exchange for cooperation, prisoners were sometimes given hard candies, desserts and chocolates. Abu Zubaydah was partial to Kit Kats, the same treat Saddam Hussein fancied in his captivity.
"One of the difficult issues in this new kind of conflict is what to do with captured individuals who we know or believe to be terrorists," Rice said. "The individuals come from many countries and are often captured far from their original homes. Among them are those who are effectively stateless, owing allegiance only to the extremist cause of transnational terrorism. Many are extremely dangerous. And some have information that may save lives, perhaps even thousands of lives."
Sources tell ABC News that Jordanians, Egyptians, Moroccans, Tunisians, Algerians, Saudis, Pakistanis, Uzbekistanis and Chinese citizens have been returned to their nations' intelligence services after initial debriefing by U.S. intelligence officers. Rice said renditions such as these are vital to the war on terror. "Rendition is a vital tool in combating transnational terrorism," she said.
Of the 12 high-value targets housed by the CIA, only one did not require water boarding before he talked. Ramzi bin al-Shibh broke down in tears after he was walked past the cell of Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the operational planner for Sept. 11. Visibly shaken, he started to cry and became as cooperative as if he had been tied down to a water board, sources said.
WOW
if all that is true should it not be classified and remain NOT disclosed for public consumption!
Its says they were Waterboarded and it worked!!!
Is that "torture lite" is that JUST torture?Of the 12 high-value targets housed by the CIA, only one did not require water boarding before he talkedAlso from ABC
History of Waterboarding ABC news sourceThis morning, Goss insisted that the CIA and its officers are not breaking U.S. law."We do debriefings because debriefings are the nature of our business — to get information, and we do all that, and we do it in a way that does not involve torture because torture is counterproductive," Goss said.
The CIA maintains its interrogation techniques are in legal guidance with the Justice Department. And current and former CIA officers tell ABC News there is a presidential finding, signed in 2002, by President Bush, Condoleezza Rice and then-Attorney General John Ashcroft approving the techniques, including water boarding.
This web page says there is a prison in Morroco
web page not a good source Anti-America
More info on WaterboardingThe ghost prison network stretches around the globe. The biggest American-run facilities are at the Bagram airbase, north of Kabul in Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay, where around 400 men are held, and in Iraq, where tens of thousands of detainees are held. Saddam Hussein and dozens of top Baath party officials are held in a prison at Baghdad airport.However, Washington is relying heavily on allies. In Morocco, scores of detainees once held by the Americans are believed to be held at the al-Tamara interrogation centre sited in a forest five miles outside the capital, Rabat. Many of the detainees were originally captured by the Pakistani authorities, who passed them on to the Americans.
One is Abdallah Tabarak, a militant who is alleged to have been Osama bin Laden's bodyguard and was seized in late 2001 by the Pakistanis. Tabarak was handed over to US agents, sent to Bagram and then to Guantanamo, before being flown to Morocco. Last November, Amnesty International criticised the 'sharp rise' in torture during 2003 in Moroccan prisons.
In Syria, detainees sent by Washington are held at 'the Palestine wing' of the main intelligence headquarters and a series of jails in Damascus and other cities. Egypt has also received a steady flow of militants from American installations. Many other militants have been sent to Egypt by other countries through transfers assisted by the Americans, often using planes run by the CIA.
In Cairo, prisoners are kept in the interrogation centre in the general intelligence directorate in Lazoughli and in Mulhaq al-Mazra prison, according to Montasser al-Zayat, an Islamist lawyer in Cairo and former spokesman for outlawed militant groups.
-tom wFormer intelligence officials say that lawyers from the C.I.A. and the Justice Department have been involved in intensive discussions in recent months to review the legal basis for some extreme tactics used at those secret centers, including "waterboarding," in which a detainee is strapped down, dunked under water and made to believe that he might be drowned."Policies and procedures on detention interrogation in Iraq and elsewhere have been the focus of intense oversight and scrutiny, and very close attention has been paid to making them lawful," a senior intelligence official said on Friday.
[ December 06, 2005, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]
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LOLThe fluid in the bag could be antiseptic also.is that not akin to "inventing" cans of tuna with mayo and relish already in them so the tuna salad is ready to eat out of the can?
Maybe what is needed is antiseptic ballistics gelatin in VERY tightly packed bubble wrap (large over lapping 2-4 cc bubbles) sandwiched between layers of bullet proof kevlar in the form of a vest or body armour!
NOW we are on to something!
-tom w
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that was immediate lack of oxygen and blood flow to the brain simulating something like instant decapitation.
(I have had some personal experience recieving Jiu Jitsu chokes like that as well, very effective when corectly executed)
The shot to the body they are talking about (Not the spinal cord or the brain) however may still give you that 15 seconds of the oxygen to the brain that the poster or the articles are refering to resulting in the time the enemy needs to pull the pin or unload his magazine in full automode on you. If I understand the point correctly.
-tom w
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yes please
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more
Is this the SAME bullet type as Nerd King is talking about here?:This profile is the M855 5.56mm NATO cartridge, with a 62gr steel core FMJ boat tailed bullet @ 3035 f/s. This is a classic fragmenting rifle bullet profile. Penetration is acceptable at 34cm (13.4"). Note the long narrow neck of about 9 cm (4") before the bullet tumbles and fragments. The original M193 55gr round produces a similar profile but it has a longer neck, and slightly smaller temporary and permanent cavities. Both of these bullets fracture at the cannelure at velocities above about 2700 f/s. Below that velocity the bullets simply tumble without producing the extensive permanent cavity much like the 7.62 mm M80 ball round.The 5.56 FMJ does not have the stop-them-now power that it should have for close-quarters fighting. Is it still effective? Yes. Is it the best round out there? No. Are there other rounds out there, easily available, that can do the job better? YES.PERIOD.
[ December 06, 2005, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]
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there's more here:
interesting terminal ballistics web pageBig Hole School - In this school of thought, and the medically correct one, the more permanent damage that is done to the target (and incidentally the more rapidly the target bleeds out) the more effective the bullet and more likely incapacitation. The more tissue cut, crushed, and/or destroyed by the bullet's passage the better, as more real system trauma results. In addition, in order to be effective at all target angles the bullet must penetrate sufficiently to reach vital organs in the target no matter from what direction the bullet impacts. Most authorities agree that for anti-personnel use a minimum penetration in calibrated ballistic gelatin of about 12" (with 14" - 15" being considered ideal) is needed. This is necessary to achieve reliable performance under all conditions against a human target. It should be noted that minimum depth for major blood vessels and organs in a human is about 15cm ( 6"). With bullets used for hunting the general consensus is the deeper the better. In both cases this has to be coupled with the ability to create the largest diameter permanent hole possible. Most authority seem to agree that the hole needs to be at least .5" or greater in diameter and as deep as possible. A problem arises here in that as a bullet expands it tends to penetrate less, so expansion and penetration have to be carefully balanced by bullet weight and bullet construction. This bullet design problem is exacerbated by the fact that if a target is covered by some material such as cloth, glass, metal, etc. the expansion--and hence the penetration of the bullet--can alter dramatically.This school tends to favor medium to heavy weight bullets at moderate velocity, with a general preference to bullets of .40 caliber and greater. The stated requirements for optimum performance are:
An average penetration of 14" in 10 percent gelatin
Velocity of between 800 and 1000 f/s
Maximum practical bullet weight for the caliber. (9 mm - 147 gr, 10 mm - 180 gr, .45ACP - 230 gr)
The most famous of these studies is the FBI "Ammunition Standards" testing and evaluation done in the 80s which attempted to rank ammunition effectiveness. While the study was well done and showed the effectiveness of making a large diameter and deep hole the ranking system was flawed because of the following test assumptions
Bullet expansion, in and of itself, was rewarded. Thus a 9 mm bullet that expanded to .45" was rated as more effective than a .45 cal bullet that did not expand even if the wounds were identical.
Penetration depth of 12" was awarded a value of "1" while a penetration of 11.9" was given a value of "0," the same as a penetration of 6".
The FBI has since stopped ranking the ammunition and has just started to publish the test results themselves. I personally think that a ranking system based solely upon a combination of actual penetration depth modified by the average dimensions of a human torso (to discount cavity volume outside the depth of a torso), and the volume of the permanent cavity might make a useful ranking system if the statistical caveats could be worked out.
One word about depth of penetration. Some people in law enforcement hold that too much penetration with ammunition used for self defense is a bad thing. They warn that a bullet that passes through a target may hit someone else resulting in all kinds of law suits. However, considering that according to action reports from the NYPD that 80 - 90 percent of the shots fired in law enforcement situations fail to even hit the target (Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, and a few other school grads excepted!) I wouldn't worry too much if your ammo is penetrative. Better too much than not enough when the chips are down. However, ammunition that meets stated requirements above for optimum performance will in most circumstances not exit with a torso hit
Interestingly, the big hole school has always been accepted in the hunting field as pretty much the way to go, yet for some reason tissue damage and deep penetration have taken a while to be accepted by handgunners. Maybe the reason that energy dump and temporary cavity believers aren't vocal in the hunting area is that it is hard to talk when you are in between the toes of a cape buffalo or in a lion's or bear's stomach. Another interesting observation is that much of the existing medical literature on bullet wounds is still full of misconceptions and false statements. While things seem to be slowly improving there is quite a way to go for medical literature to catch up with the truth.
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See the image at the bottom of this thread, (the last post on the page) that show's a diagram of the temporary cavitation effect of the 5.56 mm round.)Its actually called temporary cavitation. As opposed to permanent cavitation. Its the rapid hydrostatic response of tissue to the energy of the bullet. I was using graphic laymen's terms.-tom w
[ December 06, 2005, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]
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Still searching for the Swiss Stopping power ballistics study
this might help
from this web pageThe choice of calibre and ammunitionAlthough it was recognised that the 7.5mm GP11 round was no longer compatible with the nevv requirement for a lighter rifle, the calibre and ammunition had still to be determined. While accepting that combat generally takes place at ranges not exceeding 150-200m, the GRD nevertheless wished to have a round which would be effective out to 600m. Taking this into account, the 5.56 x 45mm calibre seemed insufficient, at least in the form of the M 93 round and at a time when the results of the NATO trials aimed at adopting a new standard round had not yet been made known. It can be assumed, however, that the promising performance of the new Belgian SS109 ammunition had not escaped the attention of the Swiss military authorities, since they decided to evaluate two new calibres - 6.45mm and 5.6mm.
SIG and the Federal Arms Factory each produced 105 examples of their respective rifles in the two calibres - 73 in the standard version and 32 in the short version for technical testing and service trials. In 1981, however, the 6.45mm calibre was definitely ruled out in favour of the 5.6mm calibre, because the former was ill suited to the need for a lightweight weapon. Switzerland's wish to underline its political neutrality dictated the choice of 5.6mm rather than 5.56mm calibre but, despite this, the 5.6mm rifle is perfectly compatible with all the various types of 5.56 x 45mm ammunition and studies conducted on the round have led to a 4.1 g projectile very similar to that of the SS109. Unlike the latter, the 5.6mm projectile does not have a steel core, the weight being made up by a thicker sleeve. In conformity with the Hague Convention, the GP90 is designed to be fired from a barrel with a 1-in290mm rifling twist which optimises the interior ballistics (minimum wear of the bore), exterior ballistics (particularly flight stability at ranges out to 300m at very low temperatures) and terminal effects out to 600m (perforation and stopping power) The Eidgenbssische Waffenfabrik in Thun and the Eidgenossische Pulverfabrik in Wimmis will begin production of the ammunition in 1990.
-tom w
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Way way back in the early days of the CMBO chat room or BB like this one there was a discussion VERY much like this one I think.
The whole issue of the size and weight of the round came up and there was some reference to a particularily GOOD Swiss army study (or they commissioned the study, or something) that weighed in heavily on this issue.
The details are sketchy in my mind but one of the factors that seemed to make rounds more deadly IIRC was the weight of the round. It seemed (in general) IIRC the wider fatter, heavier rounds proved to have more stopping power.
I wish I could reference that study (I will search for it when I have time) to see if there are specific rounds like the 5.56 mm round debated here. It was an old study and may be out of date.
Does anyone here recall the study or the investigation byu the Swiss into stopped power of the small arms round I am refering to?
The thing about the study is that they IIRC had good methodology and did in fact reccomend at least one specific round as the best, but I don't recall which round was the winner.
(Sorry for the sketchy details)
This is a great thread and I am intersted in reading more about this topic for sure.
thanks
-tom w
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In Canada we lost our gun rights when some nutjob targeted women only in a University in Quebec on this day (Dec 6) 1989.
The response by the Liberal Federal government was to over react and set up a MASSIVELY expensive gun registery to license and register ALL legally owned firearms in the country.
It has not, in ANY way, helped deter crime. Most police and law enforcement agencies find it useless and some have even gone on public record as being opposed to it because the problem is not hunters and legal gun owners, its the BAD guys with the illegal weapons and this is mostly gang and drug related hand gun activity in urban area's we are talking about and the gun registry DOES not touch that issue AT ALL.
BUT every year in the Canada's College's and Universities this happens:
"Tuesday, December 6th is the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence against Women. It commemorates, in particular, the massacre of fourteen women in Montreal on this day in 1989; and in general, the violence perpetrated against women every day."
-tom w
) off their corporate servers and hard disks. Low and behold the CTU boys get too close to the "good stuff" and the bad guys let of the EMP in the corporate head office and it FRIES everything electrical for a 10 block radius (including all cell phones) in a Los Angles. BUT thats JUST TV science fiction.
Suggestion
in Combat Mission Shock Force 1
Posted
I thought this was a JOKE :eek:
Or some form of sarcasm or flame bait?
He was joking wasn't he?
As a compromise they will let you play with their "new improved" campaign system where your units "maybe" can now gain some from of experience or something like that. Isn't that what they said?
-Tom W