aka_tom_w
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Posts posted by aka_tom_w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software:
Word back from Charles is that he is going to reduce the ability for a crew to spot enemy units. The new range will be something like 25-50m only. This means that if you do what you are supposed to do with a crew, which is move it to the rear, you will have NO problems. But if you try to move the crew through enemy territory on a scouting mission, it will most likely only spot an enemy unit just as that unit wiped it out. So at best you might spot one enemy squad or MG before losing your expensive crew.
While this is not a perfect solution, on balance it is FAR more accurate than the way things are now. And because this is a fairly easy tweak to make, it is the best and most practical solution to put in place at this time.
Thanks to everybody for the debate and ideas. This is how CM is made better and better each and every day!
Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi again..
OK well as long as it is fair to everyone and the AI uses crews the same way then I also support the BTS effort to reduce "gamey" play. Even though I have used it to win without thinking twice about it, I support every effort that makes the game more realistic.
But .....
What about this:
"
Red Dog
Junior Member posted 06-28-2000 03:39 PM
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In a quick battle I was commanding a small British force making a probe of a village. In the house to house fighting an entire rifle platoon was pinned down by a pair of MG42's in a heavy building at the end of the street, so I decided to move my Wasp up to clear the building. As soon as my Wasp came within range of the MG42's a Volksgrendier SMG squad popped out of hiding in a nearby building and fired a panzerfaust... it was a near miss, but the crew of the Wasp bailed out anyway. The three man crew then proceeded to charge the SMG squad and wiped them out! The next thing I knew the two MG42's in the building next door had surrendered to the Wasp crew... sadly one of the valiant crewmembers was taken out in the fighting.
I'll definately be recommending the Victoria Cross for the whole crew.
IP: Logged
gaffertape replies:
Member posted 06-28-2000 03:43 PM
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Red Dog:
Did the AI make the call to charge the Germans, or did you call the shots? Either way, I second your VC recommendation.
IP: Logged
Red Dog replies:
Junior Member posted 06-28-2000 03:49 PM
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It was the AI; it all happened in one turn, the Wasp was fired on in the first few seconds of the turn. Took them about 30 seconds to take out the SMG squad, and then at the end of the turn I noticed that the MG42's had surrendered.I wish there was some way to record the turns. "
End Thread."
When I see this kind of action and bravery from a crew under the direction of the AI I figure some crews could get real heroic for me if I ask them to go join the battle.
I am not at all dissatified with the way the game treats crews now. As I see NO difference at all between using 6 men of split squad to go out and do recon and 5 men from a bailed tank to go out and do recon.(That's why I guess my play couldbe considered gamey I suppose). The condtions are the same for both teams. Either they both enjoy the benefits of the "Magical CM radio" or they both have radios and are in communications somehow with the rest of the friendly units because in both circumstances the same information about enemy location comes back when either unit (bailed crew or 6 man split squad) sights the enemy.
That was a VERY fast response time. This shows us AGAIN how supportive and responsive Steve and Charles are to issues like this that are "do-able" and can easily be tweaked. Does this apply to just vehicle crews, or other crews like mortar crews, HMG crews and that 75 mm IG crew and pillbox crews? Will this new 25-50 meter spotting range for crews make into the v1.02 patch or is it on the v1.03 list?
Thanks again, anything to make the game more fun and more realistic is always welcomed my the majority here I'm sure
.-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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ok lets look at this another way....
Lets do some simple math..
On the Allied side in CE there are 3 x 3 x 12 infantry soldiers (108 men) 3 squads.
AND there are 5 tanks with 5 men in each one and there are 3 mortar crews with 5 men in each crew. that 25 + 15 thats 40 SOLDIERS.
Not to mention 3 x 2 man zook teams plus 2 x 5 man machine gun teams plus one 6 man .50 cal machine gun team, Total 22 MORE soldiers, when they run out of ammo I will not simply retreat them, HELL no! They stay and fight, with their pistols and their knives and bare hands if neccesary.
Don't tell me what I can and cannot do with these 62 men under my command... They have pistols,(I think) and they are trained soldiers, ALL of them, not some bunch of candy-ass wimps that will run away to fight another day. Those 62 men represent about 33% of all the men on whole Allied side in CE ( 3x 4 Platoon HQ + 1 x 4 Company CO. ) 16 + 62+ 108 = 186 men in total.
OK they are not well armed and that is realistic and they have fragile moral, GREAT, that seems pretty realistic to me too, but if all five tank crews bail out un-injured, then that's 25 men I can put to work. After the 3 mortar crews run out of ammo, thats 15 men standing around doing NOTHING, NO thanks I have a war ro fight and I will keep them busy and if its gamey, or objectionable so be it. I fully understand they are worth more alive and safe in the rear, but if I lose the battle but save the crews, whats the sense in that??
"Remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
G. S. Patton
And that includes cooks, and tank crews and clerical staff!
So basically I'm saying don't tell me how to simply retreat ONE THIRD of my troops just because all they carry are pistols and their use as fighting soldiers is considered objectionable and "gamey" by some people here.
I hope that doesn't sound too much like a flame, but if fighting a battle and using every last soldier to try to win, is gamey and objectionable then I wonder if I'm playing the "right" game?
Hell, it's WAR isn't it?
There are NO rules, fight to the death to WIN, or am I just playing the wrong game?
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by grunto:
hang in there Deadline, people in canada are starting to receive it. there's a dude in toronto who's got it because i just toasted his avre with a bunch of pesky german light armor who swarmed it like bees... =g=
andy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We'd all love to know WHO in Toronto has it, I suspect it is not the "officially blessed" version?
just a thought
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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What's new in the new demo v1.02?
I know if you select a unit you can toggle the camera 180 degrees back and forth with the "/" key
try it, its easy
but how do you make the camera pivot from one point? I thought this version of the patch would allow you to select a unit, tab to lock to it then, in Camera view 1, your view could pivot or rotate like turning your TC's head left and right to survey the battlefeild.
Any one figure this one out or am I the only DOLT here
??thanks
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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This is GREAT !!
Thanks everybody who pitched in to pull this off.
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Again....
As Mikeydz points out, this is the way BTS has chosen to deal with this "gamey" crew play. I agree with it completely, and prefer that the control of the crew remain a choice that that player has. There is a cost to that player's victory points in two ways, if the enemy eliminates the crew, they get extra victory points for killing them and when they die I imagine the player/commander who wasted their lives is penalized by losing extra victory points. They are fragile so they break easy. BUT the player retains control of them and makes the choice about how they act after they bailout, their effective use in a tight situation (i.e. the cooks fighting in Bastonage, after all, they are still soldiers) could mean the difference between winning or losing that scenario, their control and orders should remain that of the player. I completely support the way Steve and Charles have decided to deal with this issue in the game as it is coded now.
-tom w
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mikeydz:
The simplest solution to the problem is the one BTS took, make it worthwhile to not use them as scouts or front line troops, by...
A. Having them very lightly armed (which is realistic)...
B. Fragile morale...
C. Having them be costly in terms of victory points if they die in battle...
D. In Operations, allowing the possiblity that an abandoned or knocked out (but not brewed up) vehicle can be repaired in between battles, if the crew survives.
So while you might be tempted to use them to gather recon, you will pay a very high price for that info.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Hey Red Dog
you should read this Thread:
http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/006510.html
you might find it interesting that in that thread this use of bailed out crews might be considered "gamey" and some how somewhat objectionable to some players. ( well not really since the AI was calling the shots)
I thought it was a great post and a testement to the fact that bailed out crews are not useless and should not be simply ordered to the rear areas or the nearst safe place to hide, the minute they've bailed out of their vehicles.
Thanks for the AAR it was a great story of heroism !
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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OK.....
I have been having some difficulty with this thread as some of the things that are being labeled "gamey" here are not really that offensive to me. If you need to use your crews to do recon to win the game and save the lives of your other troops than I say that's your call and it is just the "maximum ultilization of available resources", like "adapt and over come".
I post here with this story most recently (like 30 minutes ago) from another thread. Please read this....
If this is what the AI will do to me when I'm defending, using a bailed crew than I might just be become the "gamey-est" PBEM opponent you have ever seen!
read this AAR account of the recent Heroism of a bailed crew under AI command:
Red Dog
Junior Member posted 06-28-2000 03:39 PM
------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a quick battle I was commanding a small British force making a probe of a village. In the house to house fighting an entire rifle platoon was pinned down by a pair of MG42's in a heavy building at the end of the street, so I decided to move my Wasp up to clear the building. As soon as my Wasp came within range of the MG42's a Volksgrendier SMG squad popped out of hiding in a nearby building and fired a panzerfaust... it was a near miss, but the crew of the Wasp bailed out anyway.
The three man crew then proceeded to charge the SMG squad and wiped them out! The next thing I knew the two MG42's in the building next door had surrendered to the Wasp crew... sadly one of the valiant crewmembers was taken out in the fighting.
I'll definately be recommending the Victoria Cross for the whole crew.
IP: Logged
gaffertape replies:
Member posted 06-28-2000 03:43 PM
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Red Dog:
Did the AI make the call to charge the Germans, or did you call the shots? Either way, I second your VC recommendation.
IP: Logged
Red Dog replies:
Junior Member posted 06-28-2000 03:49 PM
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It was the AI; it all happened in one turn, the Wasp was fired on in the first few seconds of the turn. Took them about 30 seconds to take out the SMG squad, and then at the end of the turn I noticed that the MG42's had surrendered.
I wish there was some way to record the turns. "
End Thread.
So...
Now if the AI is going to use a bailed out crew to do that to me, you bet I'm going to get VERY "gamey" with those crews if I really need them in order to gain the advantage to win !!
comments?
-tom w
(Still Waiting in Toronto for my game to arrive!)
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
[This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 06-28-2000).]
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Yes lets not swamp them with complaints we are doing a farily good job of it here amongst ourselves, I'm happy to let it stand as it is.
I thought it was an e-mail?
Didn't Deadline Say he posted it here and sent them an e-mail too?
But it was a polite e-mail and as Canadians , (besides the occasional rant on my part) we most certianly like to be remembered and thought of as polite and not offensive to anyone.
-tom w
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gaffertape:
Thanks Deadline.
I recommend that we all let Deadline's message to BTS stand alone for the moment so BTS don't feel too pestered... we can be certain that Steve and Charles are not at fault.
Hopefully though, they might be able to answer the question as to where the Canadian CMs are.
(edited 06-28-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
[This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 06-28-2000).]
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Wheres the DAMN game?!
I sure Hope mine arrives today
only 2 more days left until our long weekend (Canada Day July 1) and Believe ME we all want to waste/spend/enjoy this coming long weekend playing this game!
My credit card was charged June 16, so I paid for it then, and now 12 days later it still is NOT here!
getting Testy now....
-tom w
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Vehicle reliability has been discussed here:
http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/004103.html
check it out...
Bottom line, AFV's did not usually break down in combat, but usually on the way TO or FROM the action on the road away from the fight, so CM assumes that every AFV that actually made it into the battle and didn't breakdown on the way and is a reliable AFV, these are short battles, most are less than 90 minutes long, mechanical failure in this short combat time frame should be VERY minimal, as I understand it, there is no mechanical breakdown modeled in the game.
Please read the above thread.
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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I agree with Mikeydz on this one:
"The simplest solution to the problem is the one BTS took, make it worthwhile to not use
them as scouts or front line troops, by...
A. Having them very lightly armed (which is realistic)...
B. Fragile morale...
C. Having them be costly in terms of victory points if they die in battle...
D. In Operations, allowing the possiblity that an abandoned or knocked out (but not
brewed up) vehicle can be repaired in between battles, if the crew survives.
So while you might be tempted to use them to gather recon, you will pay a very high price for that info. "
PERFECT!
I think that you as the player/commander should be able to risk the lives of your crews for recon info. It may cost you but I prefer to see that decision in the hands of the player not the AI. IS the Tactic Gamey? I'm not sure, I do agree it is not really realistic unless they bailed out with a radio which is highly unlikely.
BUT what if they were the crew of a KO'd recon vehicle like a scout car? Then they would be doing their job, Just on foot still gathering recon info.
I like what Mikeydz has to say about this one, there is a cost for risking their lives and maybe sometimes its worth it?
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Thats a good question
oops I meant..
Is it possible with Binoculars for TC 's to see that far and determine there is no threat from those vehicles?
maybe
maybe not
it was originally meant as a question
It sounds like a fog or war question, in the same catagory as how is it we can know if that is an elite SMG unit or a Green SMG unit, this "extra" info shows up when a unit gets good LOS to the enemy SMG unit. I would say the ability to KNOW that it is an abandonned vehicle is also TOO much info unless MAYBE the hatchs are open and MAYBE one of your friendly units actually watched them abandon the AFV, but I think it EVEN this little aspect of WW II tank combat is modeled realitically because it seems the crews bail out of the bottom of their vehicles.
Didn't MOST if not ALL WW II vintage tanks have escape hatches in the floor?
So then the upper hatches would not be left open and the tank would not actually look like it was in fact abandoned.
I think this is a very good question as to how it can actually be determined that this or that AFV is in fact abandoned?
-tom w
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Thats a good question
oops I meant..
Is it possible with Binoculars for
TC 's to see that far and determine there is no threat from those vehicles?
maybe
maybe not
-tom w
[This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 06-27-2000).]
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Toronto
Nothing today
If I don't have it by this weekend
I will REALLY be....
A) Bummed
Pissed offC) Suicidal
D) Seriously considering downloading it from some "other" internet source (That may sound like a threat but it really is not as there is no known downloadble version for a Mac available, (I'm on a MAC), and yes I've been checking, because I can't wait any longer)
-tom w
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Hi Fionn
You know that ALL of us that don't have the game are just itching for some place to go and VOTE for CM
Any web site, anytime!
Its like artillary, some one just posts the URL and we all know where to LAND
We're all like a self motivated army of artillary shells, all we need is a TARGET URL and OFF we go!
FIRE For EFFECT!
Any other polls out there that need the BTS CM in first place treatment???
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Are you refering to the Gold Demo or the Gold Release with the v 1.01 patch?
In the gold demo you are mostly out of luck I think.
In the release version after the patch I think you can issue the "Hide" command but you should also give them ambush markers as well I think.
-tom w
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Toad:
How can I tell my units to hold their fire?
I tried telling my hidden AT guns to target an ambush point that was far from any enemy units, but they chose to fire on the first thing they saw anyway.
How can I get them to absolutely keep their fingers off the triggers until I tell them to shoot, or they're being attacked?
Thanks.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Thought this thread might be of interest to those reading the "Gamey Recon" thread.
-tom w
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Hi Mark
Thats actually a really good idea I had not thought of.
I understand you concern regarding gamey recon, but I figured it was a much larger issue than just "by the honour system" ordering your crews back to safety in the rear.
I was not trying to be controversial just pointing out that I thought you were refering to trying to add the "relative spotting"
feature, as it had previously been discussed here.
I think that Crews are worth something in victory points and players are encouraged to keep them alive to win scenario, but in your example, I think a strong case can be made for considering them expendable recon units and the info they might gather in that role could turn the tide in the battle even if they did get killed and then would not count as victory points when the scenario ended.
And YES, I agree with you completely that every effort should be made to make the game as realistic as possible.
just my thoughts....
-tom w
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shep:
Tom W.
The magic radio deal doesn't work for me. I don't have a problem with going to an honor system in the meantime, and just running crews back to the rear.
Mark
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Here it is
I suggest you read through this thread for a better idea about FOW and relative spotting in CM
http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/003938.html
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Ok
I'm reading this post and this is not a new issue..
But what are the suggestions for fixing it?
As the player (God like over all commander) should you ONLY be able to know about and see events and terrain and enemy unit information and location that your higest ranking commander can see, or know about via a radio link to his other sub-commmander officers in the field you have an active reb line- line of communication with the friendly unit that can see the enemy unit in question?
What are the rules or guidlines for the lines fo communication and chain of command that lets you as the player see what?
I'm only asking questions here??
I have been on record in this forum supporting MORE fog of War but many here do not want to see this game turn into a Role Playing game where you "play" the role of the highest ranking officer on the board and you can only see and know what he knows.
Many here prefer the omniscient nature of the player as an ALL seeing commander of the whole battlefield.
This is issue has come up before and the actual coding required to implement this level of relative spotting has been reported by Charles to be daunting to say the least.
Do a search for Fog or War or FOW, check the thread that says should we be able to see so much?
this is a BIG issue and is not likely to be addressed with a patch.
Maybe in CM2 the Russian Front there might be some new level of FOW the may approach relative spotting if we are lucky.
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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OK
You are descibing a feature that has been refered to in the past by Steve as relative spotting. It has been disccused in forum about more fog of war for CM.
It has been stated that this relative spotting info you are refering to would be VERY difficult to program. As it would be hard to model radio communications or lack of radio comunications. So that your forward crew could see those enemy units but you as the commander and player coudl NOT see them, as could none of your other units. Because if you as the commander can see your crew engage those units then you as the commander know where they are and then can direct fire or send in reinforcements to that location. This is a VERY tricky concept indeed.
The way I play the game now is that I assume that every friendly unit I have on the board has a "magical" radio that never fails and tells me, as the over all player and commander, everything it can see and spot. This same "magical" radio tells all my other friendly troops were ALL the enemy units are that have been spotted by any of my friendly units.
If I am mistaken about the theory of the magical radio I hope some will update me as to how relative spotting (if there is any) has been implemented in the Gold version of the game that is shipping.
This was not in any way a criticsm of the game, just my personal interpretation of how I think recon info and spotting info is shared amongst my friendly units. Just an explanation of how I think the game handles this, nothing more
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Check out that web site...
there have been 181 votes so far and ONLY 7.7 % play CM
Now lets all get over there and VOTE for CM we can do much better than 7.7 % !!!!!
-tom w
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunter:
Guys,
I had never seen this site before and found it while browsing tonight. It looks quite cool and has a poll on it at the moment "What strategy game are you playing now?". It seems some people aren't playing the right game!?
http://www.strategy-gaming.com/screen_shots/european_wars/index.shtml
Bruce<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Congrats to BTS !!!
way to go!
as for there first printing numbers I would like to speculate...
If they are "over 1000 a long long time ago"
and if Matrix SP W@W downloaded 6000 copies in the first 48 hours of free downloading
and if my personal experience suggests that the minimum cost effecifient run of printing a first run of a new batch of CD's is (if I recall correctly) about 5000 units
then I would suggest, purely based on my own personal opinion of how I would order an uncertian first run of any CD printing
I would say they ran 5000 units and sold them all out early, and have now requested a new run of 10,000 units.
This is ALL just GUESS work and shear speculation on my part.
If I were BTS I would not divulge ANY of these figures either so I doubt they will ever comment on any of these numbers and I don't blame them.
Steve and Charles you guys deserve all the glory and rewards of ALL your hard work and out standing customer service and for putting up with all the bitching and whining that wsa posted in between all the real inspirataional and insightful posts that were actually helpful to the game.
congrats!
-tom w
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EScurlock:
Spectacular. BTW just how big was that initial printing?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pissed off
Add-on pack stuff........(BTS)
in Combat Mission Archive #2 (2000)
Posted
How about some amphib vehicles...
DD Shermans
The DUWK that Allied Amphib truck
the Axis
Schwimmmwagen ? ( Like a VW "Thing" jeep that swims) again Amphib
Why is it that there are no amphib vehicles in this game? Can someone remind me.
I was just suggesting these so that some units could drive/swim across rivers that that don't have any tile that troops can ford across.
thanks
-tom w
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>