ronald reagan celebration

[Kuniworth]

Ok as usual when I leave you guys this forum tends to go into madness. Reagan-lover or not, it's not sc related.

I am now locking this thread once again.

[Panzer39]

Well compared to the rest of our leaders since Eisenhower, Regan, to me, stands out as one of the best.

Lets see, Kennedy was sanctified because he was martyred, more affairs than good old Bill, got the ball rolling on Vietnam, and paved the way for Johnson's "Great Society".

Johnson, escalated the war in Vietnam, a war which made much less sense than the current one in Iraq, cost the nation billons of dollars with the Great Society. While some of the programs like Medicare and Medicaid were worthy, the "Lets put all the poor people in the same area and give them no incentive to engage in work" didn't quite pan out like it should have. Instead it helped kill cities like the one I live in (New Orleans.

Nixon, got us out of Vietnam, got the EPA up and running, however also decided to fight racism with racism by starting up the affirmative action program which while well intended, now provides for yet another point to divide the USA based on Race. Got caught doing what a lot of others have gotten away with, but wasn't man enough to come clean with it. Instead Watergate kills his career.

Ford and Carter, a robot and a peanut farmer.

Regan, see Rambo's previous post as they sum up my view pretty well.

Bush I, Handled Iraq well, but should have finished it than. Should have just raised taxes instead of reading lips.

Slick willy, despite his personal flaws, a decent president. However, he dismantled the military that Regan built in order to balance the budget.

Bush II, still in office, lots he can still do to save or destroy his legacy.

So why not celebrate Regan's legacy? Yes he favored the upper class and capitalism, but is that any worse than Johnson's reversed discrimination polices? To me its not. Regan gave life back to the office of President, had Americans feeling proud again, and in my opinion, left the country in a better position when he was done. Sadly not many other presidents can claim that.

[JerseyJohn]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

Ok as usual when I leave you guys this forum tends to go into madness.

:eek: :eek:

Kuni, it's a good thing that we've got you to keep it all sane and orderly.

Putting the matter to rest, for me anyway, this pretty well sums up my feelings about Ronald Reagan, the head of state. I think most of those who admire him were children when he was president; if things such as destroying the working man seem admirable then I won't bother discussing him with them. I don't believe in addition through subtraction; it isn't good enough to say the rest have been bums so he was okay. For me he was also a bum pure and simple.

[ June 12, 2004, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[jon_j_rambo]

Kuniworth --- I've NEVER heard of ANYBODY ever starving to death in the USA. There is welfare, food houses, & churches with free lunches on nearly every street corner.

Reagan fought big business! Broke up AT&T, fired Air Traffic Controllers, & pressed the General Motors to compete with the Japs...AND help Chrysler from going bankrupt. Reagan played both sides of the coin, fought extremes.

Sir Jersey --- You're a made man, I won't touch your comments (and you know I disagree when it comes to Ron), yet you do speak truth from your point of view...I was young when Reagan was in office. We've talked enough politics, I understand the fact you don't care for any of the bastards. That's where we agree I guess I like Reagan compared to the other clowns in office

To the Euro Commie Trash who hate Reagan --- Whatever...

[JerseyJohn]

General Rambo

"We've talked enough politics, I understand the fact you don't care for any of the bastards. That's where we agree I guess I like Reagan compared to the other clowns in office."

We pretty much do agree and our views are similar. Ronald Reagan, for all the moves he made that I didn't agree with, was still a person I respected and liked. There are many things I've got to give him, including the fact he made the United States a military power again; after Vietnam we crawled into a hole somewhere.

The problem is American politicians, by the time they're elected, aren't making their own decisions, they're too committed to whoever put them in office.

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, to me, were such really terrible presidents that it isn't a matter of parties.

Perhaps the system itself is out of whack and needs to be completely overhauled -- and I'm not talking about turning into a communist country or anything along those lines. For a start, I think political campaigns out to be capped and paid for entirely out of tax money, same amount to each candidate, and the lobbyists ought to be thrown out of the capital. This special interest nonsense should be treated as a crime.

Naturally we can't take this much further here but it's turned out to be really interesting, I think, and will be starting it as a topic at TWC tomorrow or Monday, if you don't first. With all the political talks we've had there's always something new to be covered.

-- BTW, a similar cartoon can be made of any president, so it isn't Reagan that I'm singling out.

I'm glad the moderators have allowed it to run this long without either locking it or sending to the General [Deadend] Forum. Many thanks Martin and Matt.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Kuniworth --- I've NEVER heard of ANYBODY ever starving to death in the USA. There is welfare, food houses, & churches with free lunches on nearly every street corner.

Free lunches?? :eek:

What kind of welfare is having a system when people have to depend on charity from churches?? What self-esteem do you promote by giving the people food that way?

I'm talking about a welfare-system where you don't have to be ashamed to have failed in life and don't have to depend on charity of volontary-work. I'm talking about the state providing welfare, and no one have to feel ashamed of using it when one lost his job, got into drug addiction etc.

Reagan drow the working man into the coorporations dream. Chrush the unions, cut the welfare expenditure, every man for himself.

Sorry I'm not buying it. We had Margaret Thatcher in the UK with the same politics, which destroyed the country for decades.

Reagan may have been a good leader otherwise, but creating inequality among the people is not the way to go. And I think Jesus would agree if he is up there in heaven.

[JerseyJohn]

Kuni

Those are gripes I've had against this country for decades but I can't put the blame for any of that on Reagan.

The problem with the world today is no population can have a decent standard of living for all it's citizens without it's government being solidly on their side. It can't take the part of one segment over the rest, as has long been the case in the United States.

There is no equality in the society as it has become, only a lot of doubletalk and juggling of statistics. Sure, there are millions of jobs, but the vast majority are on the poverty level and even at that few of them offer even the most fundamental benefits. But Government statistics always paint a rosy picture; never mind the millions who are out of work, doing something off the books just to get by, which is pretty much what I do -- no benefits and nothing going toward ritirement, insult of insults being called an independant agent or self-employed or some other bogus term! -- and they never show up in the statistics as unemployed. Of course not, we no longer exist as far as the government is concerned. Pathetic. Way past time for a change.

Kuniworth

Why don't you join The Writer's Club already? We've got entire areas for history, politics and other things I know you enjoy discussing. The link has been posted a few times -- and it's my signature in any case!

I didn't want to run the announcement a second time, which I felt would have been abusive on my part, but we'd all really enjoy having you for a member.

< Thread on Similar Issues at The Writer's Club >

[ June 13, 2004, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[reiver]

You Americans are not alone in feeling that you really dont have any control of politics or politicians any more - try living in Europe where democracy means damn all!

There is a political hegemony that is self fulfilling and looking after its own interests.

I like other Europeans, but I think that the EU is ****. It should be a trading block not a soveriegn power unacountable to us mere mortals.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by reiver:

I like other Europeans, but I think that the EU is ****. It should be a trading block not a soveriegn power unacountable to us mere mortals.

Yes the european union really suck. I have yet to see any improvements it has made to our society. What is really annoying though is leaving it will mean weaker economy.

[jon_j_rambo]

Unionworth --- Kuni, Unions are bad for society in general. There are rare cases when Unions are necessary. The Union Leaders claim & make themselves out to be the "Keeper of the Flock", yet I see them as maggots charging people to work. I'd rather work for myself they Jimmy Hoffa. Unions use fear, intimidation, threats, violence, & are the dumbest people.

Food is rather cheap in the United States. 20 pound bag of Idaho's finest potatos is only $2.49/bag. 50 pound bag of rice is what? 8-bucks? Noodles, beans, bread, milk, ceral, & other bulk foods are cheap too. There is no problem getting jobs (yes, they are low paying) in the United States.

If somebody is physically & mentally able, they are without excuse for not getting a job in the United States. I don't have a problem with giving welfare for single mothers who were dumb enough to marry a dead beat dad. There is all kinds of educational help for poor too. Quit depending on the government to solve your problems.

Face it UnionWorth, you need to get a job.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Unionworth --- Kuni, Unions are bad for society in general. There are rare cases when Unions are necessary. The Union Leaders claim & make themselves out to be the "Keeper of the Flock", yet I see them as maggots charging people to work. I'd rather work for myself they Jimmy Hoffa. Unions use fear, intimidation, threats, violence, & are the dumbest people.

Food is rather cheap in the United States. 20 pound bag of Idaho's finest potatos is only $2.49/bag. 50 pound bag of rice is what? 8-bucks? Noodles, beans, bread, milk, ceral, & other bulk foods are cheap too. There is no problem getting jobs (yes, they are low paying) in the United States.

If somebody is physically & mentally able, they are without excuse for not getting a job in the United States. I don't have a problem with giving welfare for single mothers who were dumb enough to marry a dead beat dad. There is all kinds of educational help for poor too. Quit depending on the government to solve your problems.

Face it UnionWorth, you need to get a job.

Obviously you have no idea on what you are talking about. I understand that you can have critizism against unions in the US because the workers benefits are tied to companies instead of the state. That makes it very hard to make businessess and factories more effective as unions will always protest against it.

BUT THIS IS NO REASON TO CONDEMN UNIONS ALL TOGETHER

In Sweden healthcare, teeth-care, pension etc etc are mainly tied to the state instead of the private sector. That makes it more easy to make changes. Add to that unions stribe for central-agreements with the employers on national level to assure wage-raises does'nt cause inflation and that companies can't compete and survive by paying lower wages and you have a sector that will constantly try to evolve their business to survive.

I think it's a disgrace to all those union-activists that died fighting for minimum wages and reasonable terms. In Columbia people are dying almost every day trying to give people a decent living.

I can't see how you, a believer in Christ, can just reject the OWN fight of poor for better terms. How can you justify for yourself and God that their cause is unjust.

SHAME ON YOU MR RAMBO.

Secondly depending on Government got nothing to do with exploting benefits. It has to do with people paying taxes and a iron-hard mentality that work is what constructs the welfare in a society.

You see it's comes down to on how you organize the community. What to prioritize.

What scares me is the total lack of understanding for people falling on hard terms.

SHAME ON YOU RAMBO. READ THE BIBLE, support the poor do not condemn them or their struggle to get equal oppurtunities to a decent life.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Face it UnionWorth, you need to get a job.

ANd furthermore HOW THE HELL DO YOU DARE ACCUSE ME OF BEING OUT OF A JOB??? :mad: :mad:

I never been out of work for my whole life so shove it. :mad:

[jon_j_rambo]

Commie-Worth said

BUT THIS IS NO REASON TO CONDEMN UNIONS ALL TOGETHER

But Commie-Worth didn't read what Rambo said

There are rare cases when Unions are necessary.

[jon_j_rambo]

CommieWorth --- The Bible instructs those who are able to work, not to bum off other's labor. What do you care about the Bible anyways? Come with me to the Rescue Mission, help serve food, listen to the preaching of the Gospel, sing some songs, eat some good hot food, get educational help, job help, etc.

I don't judge people by the size of their wallet. My family roots are from the poorest, we aren't materialist.

I was tought not to take things for free.

I was tought not to be a bum.

I was tought not to depend on the government.

The Bible tells us to preach the Gospel, not get involved in the Social-Economically struggles of the day. Ultimately, God provides & has blessed the United States because we orginally were founded on Judeo/Christain beliefs. God doesn't bless laziness, it's a sin.

Your country has the highest taxes in the world by the way & you want more taxes. If you add up what the taxes here, it's about 50%. The Union's are worthless in the United States, there's no need. They steal worker's money. Why should I trust a Union Jimmy Hoffa murderer? I prefer to deal with Management myself.

I pay enough taxes: Income Tax, Sales, Property, Gas, Communications, Dog, Tolls, Airline, Insurance, FICA, medicare, medicaid, Capital Gains, Interest, etc......name it.

You need to grow up, get a haircut, get a job, & quit whinning about the world.

[kurt88]

Poll :

Was Jesus a communist?

[jon_j_rambo]

No, he had a job, was a carpenter. He walked nearly everywhere too, expect to forfill the scriptures on Palm Sunday. And he paid His taxes.

"Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's"

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Your country has the highest taxes in the world by the way & you want more taxes. If you add up what the taxes here, it's about 50%. The Union's are worthless in the United States, there's no need. They steal worker's money. Why should I trust a Union Jimmy Hoffa murderer? I prefer to deal with Management myself.

50%?? I only pay 33% in taxes. Seems like you are getting screwed. I guess that Reaganomics are not working huh?

Anyway your total lack of understanding of social problems is showing.

And if you really think that one should follow the old saying "give to ceaser what is his" instead of helping those in need you are obviously a religious fundamentalist. Hard core believer, only difference from the nazis and communists are that you believe in obedience to the bible but you both share the same lack of thinking independent and obey a higher goal to whatever end.

Im not saying the bible is wrong, heck Im a memeber of the swedish christian church. But I'm not buying quoting the bible to justify unrightful inequality.

[ June 13, 2004, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ]

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

No, he had a job, was a carpenter. He walked nearly everywhere too, expect to forfill the scriptures on Palm Sunday. And he paid His taxes.

Can you drop the McCarthy descriptions for a minute and tell me how you define a communist. Come on mr Rambo, shows us your definition of ideologies. Let me guess;

unemployed - communist

angry unemployed - lazy communist

homeless - lazy bum communist that live off poor churches

Drug addict - see "homeless"

union activists - Satan reincarnated as a communist

Republican - Freedom fighter

Reagan - Mega freedom fighter

This is getting as ridicilous debating as watching AssmyPoo write an AAR.

[ June 13, 2004, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ]

[Curry]

I thought Kuni had locked this........

I guess we need Martin, Oh Martin,,,,, please its been a long time since we have seen one of your

[jon_j_rambo]

Puni-Worth --- Being a member of a Church, yet not believing in Christ risen? You don't believe the Bible yet want to join a so-called Christain organization? You're just another in-the-middle flip-flopper. Get a backbone. Mean what you say. Say what you mean. Either you're saved or you're lost.

Quit pumping the "Worker's of the World speech"......educate us by example by getting off your computer 14-hours a day & get a job.

[jon_j_rambo]

Locking this one so Kuni can go get a job & quit being a Commie.

[jon_j_rambo]

Double locked.

[Tank Ace]

sounds like u got a chip on your shoulder, kuni, i suggest u get that looked at before you're friends start noticing.

Also Jesus is not a communist, for one, anyone who tries to put a political face on Jesus is disgusting, that is the man that gave his life for all of us. My socialist teacher tried to do that and I have disliked her ever since.

[ June 13, 2004, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: TANK ACE ]

[JerseyJohn]

Kuni --

Come write this stuff at TWC where you'll be appreciated!

While you were writing these things a young firebrand at TWC had to struggle unaided, as you did here, against the forces of biserk capitalism and ultimately became exhausted.

Regarding the government and it's positions with regards to workers benefits and regulations, I agree with you 100%. We almost, but not quite had that in this country when things were running smoothly. Then that wonderful deregulation started and the companies only had to answer to themselves -- something they are now doing with their factories in other countries exploiting slave labor. They've gone a step further, though, and have imported slave labor to steal the remaining jobs from what used to be the American workers, but everything is just wonderful, obviously.

Kuni, click onto my sig and come right your stuff at TWC. It will be appreciated there.

[Comrade Trapp]

Jersey

We almost, but not quite had that in this country when things were running smoothly.

When was that?

Not questioning you, just wondering.