"Assault on Longstop" -love or hate?

[MikeyD]

I don't troll the scenario talk forum much but I thought this would be the best place to ask. What's your opinion of 'Assault on Longstop' on the CD? My one and only scenario on the disk and I've got zero feedback on that thing in all this time.

__ SPOILER WARNING __

AoL (for short) has a couple features that could turn some people off. For one thing its an assymertic fight. Tanks and infantry vs mgs and mortars. Another thing is nobody's particularly well suited to fight the other. The Brit Churchill IVs can't fire HE and German AT assets are entirely inadequate. Plus is a loooong uphill grind over open terrain to get to the top.

On the plus side, it ain't never going to be mistaken for a random QB! People were looking forward to trying assaults on mountain strongholds in the Italian theater (like Mtn. Casino), but this is one of only a handful of actual 'mountain' scenarios that I can think of, both on and off the disk.

So, what did you think? Too hard? Too easy? Too short to achieve the objective? Too long? opinions opinions opinions!

[flamingknives]

I only started playing it - no slur on the scenario, I haven't really played any of the scenarios on the CD, and I'm not too keen on attacking over really open ground, but I did think that the map was a bit barren over and above what I'd read on the terrain in 'An Army at Dawn'

From what I recall of what I've read on the final assault on longstop, it might have been better suited to an Op.

[LeeW]

MikeyD,

Send me an email with the subject 'Assault on Longstop' and I'll send you the results screen. I played Axis and got a major victory out of it. I remember I didn't like the setup being locked down so tight, but it turned out ok in the end

I just wonder if the Brits could have won this one?? Of course I can't replay as Brits since surprise is a big factor in axis winability.

Forgot to mention it was Pbem! Rather nerve wracking at times waiting so see if you survived another turn!!

lee

[ August 26, 2004, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: LeeW ]

[JonS]

Played it as Germans in a PBEM some months ago. Not much to do really as Germans, other than setting arcs and deciding when and where to open fire. From the Geramn POV (ie, looking down), there is enough cover to position and conduct limited relocations. Things are a bit more problematic for the Brits, as they should be attacking up hill, but there are still numerous patches of dead ground.

The long gully was odd - lots of ATGs and mines in there, but armour can't get out of it at the top, so why would they bother going in there? In which case, why put so much AT capability in there? As it happened, my opponent did send a troop of Churchills up there, losing one (or two?). That was nice, of course, but I think the same resources could have been better used elsewhere.

In general I didn't like the extremely locked down setup either, more so given the limited options to change things once under way.

Hmm, that all seems a bit negative. It was enjoyable, and I did win a minor victory and the mis-match of forces was an interesting challenge. T'was a bit of an emotional rollercoaster at times.

Time-wise it seemed about right for PBEM. I was running out of ammo and forces all over the place, and the Brits were getting close to the top. Any one of

1) a few more turns, or

2) a more aggressive British attack, or

3) a less conservative expenditure of German ammo

would probably have seen the result reversed.

Design note: given the British start locations, more detailed info to the Germans about what and where they were wouldn't seem unreasonable, since advancing across that plain unobserved seems a bit unlikely. Unless it was dawn I suppose.

Regards

Jon

[MikeyD]

A mistake on my part was I neglected to insert the phrase 'preferred played as Allied' in the intro. As Germans you're mostly just sitting there stomping on the ants below. And dawn would've been a more logical time of day to start the assault, but I tried it and it would've cut visibility too much.

The German guns are placed badly in the scenario because they had been placed badly on the real mountain. The defenders did not believe the slopes were scaleable by armor (they didn't count on the Churchill's climbing ability). But as the tanks climb higher they pop into view of the guns.

Even with the element of surprise gone you should give it a try as Brits. For one thing you get to see the mountain-top blasted by a 25 pdr barrage. That's a hoot! And even if you know its coming, that 'nasty surprise' is still a pain fir the Brits to deal with.

Yeh, the 'real' Longstop was no doubt considerably larger, and at least partially wooded. Unfortunately, a true-scale scenario would've been about as unweildy to play as Casino.

[JonS]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

that 'nasty surprise' is still a pain fir the Brits to deal with.

no it wasn't :mad:

[MikeyD]

Heh heh. I've re-re-played that scenario as the Brits many times and some day's the 'nasty surprise' can be dispatched with one shot of 6 pdr tungsten (if you're under 500m), on other days it sweeps the hillside clear of opposition without so much as a scratch.

[Alsatian]

I like to play historical scanarios and tried this PBEM as the Germans. I like playing the histoical scenarios to see if I can do better than history.

Locking in most German units in setup may be historically correct, but it severely handicaps my attempt to do better then history. I too could do nothing but set fire arcs and hope the Brits picked the wrong path. Perhaps it's too historically accurate. Unlock the units and give me a chance to play.

In fact, my opponent picked the side of the mountain that turns out makes him completely safe from the German's Nasty Surprise. The GNS played no role in the final result. It's too bad that whether or not the game is close essentially depends on the coin flip of which mountain side the Brits assault.

For the record, I was crushed 29-71.

[SpitfireXI]

I loved this battle. I always play as Allies and thought this game was quite a challenge. I did get lucky by having my tungsten armed Churchills gang up on the nasty suprise without much loss. Firing down really helped me as well as crew experience levels. I also found out how important Churchill Mk.I's are with that HE. I protected those from most AT weapons. And I really did like the 25-pounder barrage. The map was really fun, however the gully with all the AT guns seemed useless, I just avoided it and kept going. Also, (spoiler ahead)- did the Germans have air supremacy? That 190 really did a number on my Churchills and Bren carriers.

[Hensworth]

I played this one a fair while ago (as the Brits), so I don't remember too many specifics.

I found it quite enjoyable, with a few twists and turns in the plot and a credible AI.

[dieseltaylor]

Just finished it and found it very very enjoyable. I tend to play in realtime - one minute for the film and then a min approx. for the turn so may have been able to do slightly better than a 48/52 to the computer. Exactly the same casualties!

Amazing CAS taking out MMG 20 metres from a German ATG! Then annoyed Churchill crewmen assaulted it - to within 4 metres - retreated and pinned it down from 17 metres. Very amusing. I would never normally do this but it was that kind of battle. Excellent.

Not for humans or replay. But all the better for that.

[dieseltaylor]

I was discussing the game with my brother who played it yonks ago but also enjoyed it thoroughly. He won - but then killing a large points object helps: )

[Brent Pollock]

Just pop it open in the editor and unlock all the German units...or has it been Tournament Saved?

Originally posted by Alsatian:

[snipped by Brent]

Locking in most German units in setup may be historically correct, but it severely handicaps my attempt to do better then history. I too could do nothing but set fire arcs and hope the Brits picked the wrong path. Perhaps it's too historically accurate. Unlock the units and give me a chance to play.

[snipped by Brent]