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Lt Bull

QB Battle Force Points tables/charts

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Posted (edited)

I can understand that navigating through and selecting the right QB settings can be a bit of a nightmare. I've had a bit of a look at all the options and found that it is easier to "find what you are looking for" by probably looking through a chart that lists all the possible player 1 and player 2 QB force points combinations and ratios.

Note: if you apply the attacker force modifer in the QB settings in CM, the resultant points you see is/might be slightly off what you would mathematically expect. The values I work with are mathematically calculated and hence can be off by +/-20 pts in some cases.

CM has a very odd way of letting players control the size of their QB battles. They arbitrarily get you to pick the battle type, then the battle size, which fixes the force size for one side (the designated "defender"). It then gives you fixed % force size adjustment modifiers to increase or decrease the points for the other side (the "attacker"). The use of the terms ME, probe, attack and assualt are pretty much meaningless and so arbitrary when all you really care about is the actual points for each side (and associated ratio).

Given the way CM determines things in QBs, it is porbably best to first start off determing the appropriate points (and hence force size) to give the defender for a given map, as these are limited in choice. Once that is determined, determine the appropriate attacker: defender points force ratio is appropriate for the map. Note that the ratio table does not feature "attacker:defender" ratios of less than 1, even though CM QBs literally can allow the "attacker" to have less points than the "defender". To fully utilise all force size posibilities in a QB, it is more important to get the side1:side2 force ratio correct (and overall points for each side) regardless of what the game considers the "attacker" and the "defender" and then do what you need to do to make sure the QB/QB map sets up the right players in the right deployment zones etc.

For example if you think that maybe a force size of around 3500 points for one side defending on a map is suitable, we can go to the chart of ratios and search for a "defender" force size close to 3500. There is 3399 (large attack) and 3620 (large probe). You can then filter the chart (if you have Excel) on the attackers side for LAT and LPR. A bunch of "attacker" force size ration posibilities are shown.

Bull's CM QB CHOICES.jpg

PS: Manually download the chart above as a JPG to better read the numbers as this thread does not show image at 100%.

Bull's CM QB RATIOS.pdf Bull's CM QB RATIOS.xlsx

Edited by Lt Bull

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3 hours ago, Lt Bull said:

 

Bull's CM QB CHOICES.jpg

PS: Manually download the chart above as a JPG to better read the numbers as this thread does not show image at 100%.

Bull's CM QB RATIOS.pdf 464.47 kB · 0 downloads Bull's CM QB RATIOS.xlsx 39.31 kB · 0 downloads

+1.  Interesting stuff.  Thanks for taking the time to create and share this. 

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Posted (edited)

To be clear, the links to the PDF and Excel files are not PDF and Excel  versions of the screenshot (CM QB POINTS) you see in the above posts.  The PDF/Excel file is a different (yet complementary) filterable/searchable table of CM QB RATIOS that lists every possible QB attacker/defender points combos available in CM.  It is probably more useful than the CM QB POINTS chart in the screenshot. File links and screenshot preview below:

Bull's CM QB RATIOS.xlsx

Bull's CM QB RATIOS.pdf (if you don't have Excel)

Example of how to use this table when setting up a QB:

1. If a QB map has been decided upon, determine from the size/frontage of the QB map the approximate value of QB purchase points suitable fro such a map. As a guide, a US Infantry Battalion '44 cost approx 3700 pts, German Panzergrenadier Battalion '44 cost approx 2600 pts.  Estimations of what size force is realistic based on the map frontage can be found here: https://balagan.info/infantry-unit-frontages-during-ww2.

2. Once the suitable ballpark figure of appropriate QB points is determined, eg. 3500, find the closest value to that number in the possible DEFENDER QB POINTS columns.  In this example it appears to be either 3399 (LAT=large attack) or 3620 (LPR=large probe).

1.JPG.41a93ae98a6ad0332a6e2823b2d9d04a.JPG

 

3. Filter the BATTLE TYPE column on the right to show all the possible QB points combinations possible for the other player for that type of battle.  In this example, LAT and LPR,

427169326_Screenshot(95).png.18a7026ee802c92625ad24942c8b78b1.png

 

4. A list of all the possibilities of attacker:defender force size combos will be shown, listing the corresponding force ratios (ratios are colour scale from green true 1:1 parity, through yellow to red the more "unbalanced" the forces are). Determine what kind of battle you want this QB to be (the QB map selected must complement this) and what the appropriate Player1:Player2 force ratio should be . Players may decide a +15% advantage in points to one player may be acceptable (for whatever reason).  In the example, this would be a Large Attack with a -30% force modifier to the "attacker".  Note, this could still be used to setup essentially a ME type QB (even though CM calls it a "Large Attack") using a force size not prioviously evidently possible based on simply selecting ME at the QB setup screen.  Note that the columns you see in blue are the only available ME force sizes available for one player in CM.  As ME battles typically imply "balanced forces" it is now apparent that there are more ways to achieve that using non-ME battle settings.  Players should have much more flexibility in configuring their QB battles, whether they are meant to be MEs, probes, attacks or assualts.  eg. it is now possible to see that by setting up a Large Attack with -40% mod to the attacker essentially gives both players identical points to spend (3359/3399) as you might want in a  classic QB ME setup, but using a force size not available if you selected ME in the CM QB setup screen.  The closest would be 2850 or 4500 points.

2.JPG.9898facb7eb7a8f81603356d9185d98d.JPG

 

Edited by Lt Bull

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Posted (edited)

I was somewhat inspired by discussion in another thread about configuring QBs to suit the kind of battles players may want to setup using CM QBs to play out various battles and have updated/enhanced my previously released "Bull's CM QB RATIOS" table to Rev2.  Download links follow:

Bull's CM QB RATIOS Rev2.xlsx (Excel file)

Bull's CM QB RATIOS Rev2.pdf (PDF file)

I have now just gone the final extra few yards and have tabulated every possible combination of QB battle that is possible from CM QBs (260 possibile combinations) in one consolidated , searchable and filterable table (last tab in Excel file, last pages on PDF).

I have added a new tab "ALL QB POINTS COMBOS" that features a consolidated table every QB combo, listing  force points allocated to both sides, the total of those points, the resultant force ratios, and of course all the QB parameter setup information required to achieve the battle of choice (battle type, size, force modifer).  Of course you need to be able to open the file in Excel (or equivalent) to filter and sort the table as you seem fit to find the battle setup you want.  Column values are colour formatted from smallest possible (green) to largest possible (red).

eg.  Preview of top of table sorted by force ratio (note: although only the five ME battles at the top of that list precisely give both players "even points" to spend ie. force ration of 1).  However, you can see that there are other battle setups which differ in points allocation by only a few percentage (ie. ratios between 1 and 1.1 (or between 0% and 10% points differential) which players may agree to consider irrelevant in setting up an otherwise "balanced points ME", if that is what they want.

prev.JPG.ee9911df43abf34e5a729091ec8a5c13.JPG

This table alone should provide everything you need to know about what is and what is not possible to achieve with the CM QB parameters, and how to achieve them.

Edited by Lt Bull

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