JulianJ Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) I just played the Al Hawl scenario - I was the US Forces. It was a complete walkover and towards the end I was rather bored. So many Javelins. I think it wouldn't be very good to play as H2H as whoever has the Syrians is in for a pasting. What I did was race to good positions in the town at or overlooking the objectives then let the Red Side attack my fist with their faces. What would improve it would be: reduce the number of Javelins the US forces have (I was even giving them to my platoon commanders, let the useless Ruperts do something for a change!). Remove the US air support, and allow the Syrians some artillery/mortars. That would make it harder for me to just occupy buildings and wait for something to come in range. I think the Syrians don't even have enough infantry as the americans outnumber them and are high quality troops. Without so many Javelins it might necessitate trying to stalk the enemy armour at close range with AT4s: that would be more interesting and problematical. My troops fired off quite a few of these, and failed to knock anything out, so IMO this needs to be up close and fired at flanks or rear. Edited October 6, 2019 by JulianJ added something 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacketäuer Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) The US forces just have sooo many javelins. This weapon really creates a difference in firepower even amongst the Nato forces. Edited October 9, 2019 by Hacketäuer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domfluff Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Had a quick look at this from the Syrian perspective. It's definitely tough, but I don't think it's unwinnable. A couple of thoughts first: The terrain is a heavy urban environment, looking like this: This is not terrain where Javelins excel, and as long as you don't keep the T-72s on the main streets, they shouldn't be a massive problem. Second: On 10/6/2019 at 9:58 AM, JulianJ said: What I did was race to good positions in the town at or overlooking the objectives then let the Red Side attack my fist with their faces. It's worth understanding that the objectives in this scenario have minimal overlap. The "Residential Area" and "City Centre" are the only ones which are shared, and all three are worth 50 points. In expectation, you'll be earning 100 points each regardless, and fight over the last 50, which the Red forces will start in control of. Unit objectives are similar - Red gets 190 points for killing Blue, whereas the Blue forces get 100 points for Red armour, and 100 points for Red infantry. That split is important. That means that there's no need for Red to "attack my fist with their faces" - they're the defensive partner here. The overall plan for Red should be a defence in depth - pockets of resistance to bleed the Blue forces slowly as they creep through the town. BMPs supporting squads, with the intention of fighting defensively in a series of point-blank ambushes. The armour needs to be in hidden positions and used as a mobile reserve - winning firefights at close range with devastating firepower. They overmatch everything the US has, assuming you don't allow them long sight lines. Good scouting is going to be very important, so that this mobile reserve can be used. The Red forces consist of two platoons of BMP-2 mech inf, and two platoons of T-72s. That's definitely more armour heavy than the terrain would suggest. Finding the best way to use this armour is the axis on which this scenario is going to rotate - if the armour is thrown away then Red will just lose. Secondarily, Red will be dependent on using their BMPs well. It's going to be incredibly important to lay down a ton of fire with autocannon. The Blue forces have three platoons of Strykers and a platoon of MGS Strykers. They do have air support later, which is something that Red doesn't have any good answer to here. Blue outnumbers them in infantry, and if they're allowed good sight lines and positioning then they'll win. If they're instead forced into pushing into unscouted terrain and come up against the kind of devastating firepower that the T-72 can put out, then they can do pretty badly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domfluff Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Now, is this biased towards Blue? Sure, it's Shock Force. There are very few plausible asymmetric scenarios that feel even, since designing and balancing those are really difficult. I do think the Red forces here have an interesting challenge though, and I do think it's winnable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianJ Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 Hi Dom, thanks for your thoughts. An interesting analysis. Even with the idea of just defending, Blue can seize good positions on the taller buildings for overwatch. That's what I did. The jav can be fired from inside a building and has a v short minimum range, so combined with more, superior infantry, I still wouldn't rate Red's chances, especially with the F16 able to find and destroy hidden vehicles. Before I split off AT teams, some of my Javelins were fired uselessly at buildings: I still had some left at the end of the game. No air support, halve the number of Javelins and give Red some arty or mortars would make it more playable IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 The AI for the original CMSF1 scenario, I believe, was little more than a single red AI assault order into the center of the town. A turkey shoot. At least now you're compelled to work a bit for your victory, risk your Javelin guys being shot by Syrian screening troops. I'd class this as a 'demonstration' scenario - lets see what a Stryker company can do, watch lots of tanks gettin' blown up! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianJ Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 Hi all, @Liveloadhas reworked the scenario. I haven't played it all the way through but I just wanted to give it the thumbs up so far. I've had several nasty surprises! Not a cakewalk by any means. LL's remix is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uozlq764am6vqw0/Al Hawl SF2 - Liveload Remix.btt?dl=0 I will do a proper review when I have finished but unfortunately due to RL events that may not be for a while. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Usually Hapless Did a Al Hawl video swapping out Stryker Brigade for Dutch. Gone are the Javelins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7vxEmCAVwI 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liveload Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, JulianJ said: Hi all, @Liveloadhas reworked the scenario. I haven't played it all the way through but I just wanted to give it the thumbs up so far. I've had several nasty surprises! Not a cakewalk by any means. LL's remix is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uozlq764am6vqw0/Al Hawl SF2 - Liveload Remix.btt?dl=0 I will do a proper review when I have finished but unfortunately due to RL events that may not be for a while. Very nice! I was hoping to make it more fun to play as Blue vs AI, sounds like we're on track! I plan on buffing the scenario a little more based on the feedback I've gotten thus far, as well. Respectfully, LL Edited October 25, 2019 by Liveload 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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