Shallow Foxholes

[winkelried]

checked my notebooks: was a WW1 veteran who told me the story about jumping into fresh craters in the 1970s. seems we never trained to do so - and never was on the receiving end of anything bigger than 81mm (probably) mortars - except for a blue-on-blue with 105mm during spotting - so can't tell if it works .

the gun adjustment was an explanation given to us during FO training by artillery officers when firing with a 18 gun batallion into an area of 300x200 m in the 1980s.

[JonS]

My guess is that you mis-understood what was being explained to you. Each gun is shifted from the nominal centre of the target at the start of each mission, but they don't shift bearings and elevation (and thus point of aim) from round to round within a mission.

[slysniper]

I think digging fox holes in the game framework is not so realistic. if it was allowed, troops would need to be shown doing it in a somewhat exposed position and there also would need to be a sound factor that should allow enemy units within range to hear what was happening and give away the position where they are digging.

Unless units knew they were to hold a piece of ground for some time or that there was not a concern of letting the enemy know where they were. I have a hard time beleiving much digging was going on if there was a chance the enemy heard you and sent some rounds your way.

Yes, troops were digging foxholes all the time, but not in the middle of fire fights generally.

It be ok in the game, but it should have a high risk and take plenty of time to adcheive. But it should come into play in some situations. Like a defence in depth. I could see some units assigned to the last line of defence. preparing holes so that when units withdrawl from the forward positions there is a better defensive line ready. but holes would not start showing up until at least 15-20 minutes of effort. That is how I see it anyway.

[slysniper]

As for arty landing in the same hole twice. There is alot of variables as to getting two shells to duplicate the same path and land in the same spot.

So it is a matter of luck. Jumping in the hole just recently made might be safer if you figure things will not duplicate themselves.

Lets see, did the gun not re-adjust at all from the previous recoil. Does the shell load have the exact same amount of powder. Has the wind varied from the gun barrell to the target in either direction or force since the last shot.

Just them three things would likely make the shell land somewhere else, but the question is how far away from the last one.

So as clientwood would Say "Do you feel Lucky" then go for it, at least you would not be laying in open ground. Plus the ground would be soft. A great place to die if things did not work out.

[winkelried]

My guess is that you mis-understood what was being explained to you. Each gun is shifted from the nominal centre of the target at the start of each mission, but they don't shift bearings and elevation (and thus point of aim) from round to round within a mission.

Just checked the U.S. Field Manual FM 6-40 which says

para 68 c. Volley fire, sweeping.-(1) Normal sweeping.-The command is: (SO MANY) ROUNDS SWEEPING (RIGHT), (SO MANY) TURNS (MILS). Fire is opened and executed as prescribed for volley fire, except that after each round

the gunner traverses the piece the number of turns of the handwheel or the number of mils specified in the command.

they would sweep left or right.

[JonS]

huh. Ok, but that's a specific mission, not a default mission (in the same way that smoke is a specific mission that has to be ordered)

[winkelried]

huh. Ok, but that's a specific mission, not a default mission (in the same way that smoke is a specific mission that has to be ordered)

Not quite as I understand the FM. This order is given to the guns by the fire control center (FCC) based on their calculations for the original fire mission requested by the FO. There are two "languages": first the fire mission request by the FO at the FCC and second the fire orders given to the batteries/guns by the FCC to execute the fire mission.