Proposal for blockade NM objectives

[lettowvorbeck]

From the "Call to Arms" scenario pbem AARs, it looks like the unopposed blockade very quickly racks up a devastating effect on German NM (too much so??... I don't know) but no effect on MMPs. How about lowering the NM value of these tiles slightly, but also assign an MMP penalty to these tiles to represent the material pinch that the blockade will also incur?

[Bill101]

Lowering the NM penalty slightly is probably correct, but the MPP cost will come in a round about way as I'm introducing something to the campaign that will enable players to reassign income to offset (to a certain degree) losses in National Morale. This has been asked for by quite a few players so it's time to test it out!

[lettowvorbeck]

Interesting. Perhaps a kind of home front investment so you can pay off the civilian population a bit to buck up their support (like the British govt did by agreeing to the demands of striking workers instead of taking a hard line)?

[Bill101]

Mmm, it sounds like you've been reading my mind!

[vonRocko]

Lowering the NM penalty slightly is probably correct, but the MPP cost will come in a round about way as I'm introducing something to the campaign that will enable players to reassign income to offset (to a certain degree) losses in National Morale. This has been asked for by quite a few players so it's time to test it out!

It's worth a try, but I'm not so sure. As Germany, I usually have plenty of MPP. The only thing giving the ai entente a chance is my falling NM. If I can use extra money to buy moral, I fear the Germans will be unstoppable. I'm not saying it is a bad idea, just test it thoroughly.

Thanks

[Peter Palchinsky]

One related issue and two new issues.

First, why doesn't the game reflect how the British blockade nearly kept the US neutral the entire war? Something should be said about the reverse effect that the British blockade had historically on the US attitude. Britain spent a ton of money on gaining influence and circulating propaganda in the US in order to combat the negative effect its blockade had on US economic interests and politics. Only Germany's openly declared unconditional submarine warfare in late 1916 had the effect on US opinion that Britain strived for for over 2 years.

Seems like the US attitude should stay close to neutral or even slightly sympathetic to Central Powers if the blockade has been enforced since the start of the war, but I have not noticed this at all in my latest game with the AI in which I've done everything I can think of as the CP player not to aggravate the US, yet by end of 1917 the US is at 67% although it was at 0% through 1916. I didn't invade Belgium and used my submarines for surface attacks on enemy warships only, no merchants. I remain in a static defense on the French frontier while trying to knock Russia out of the war, so not sure the reason for the US wanting to enter the war to save the evil Tsarist empire.

Of course, the AI player always starts at elevated NM points so it takes forever to reduce Russian NM to zero even when it's my main effort. All the while, my morale hovers around 20% in late 1917 because of the blockade, although I've successfully sunk 12 British BBs and Brit NM is around 115%! Max Hoffman wrote that had Hindenburg and Ludendorf delivered on the their promise to make the Eastern front the main effort after they took over control of Germany in end of 1916, then Russia could have easily been forced to sue for peace by the summer of 1917, so why Russia can last so long when it is the main effort is beyond me.

One last issue is the querk where the AI squanders its units. In the current game as CP where I didn't invade Belgium, I decided to turn fog of war off at the beginning of 1917 to see what the AI was up to and to my astonishment about 70 Brit/French units are sitting in France about 8 lines thick from the German frontier holding ground. Something similar was happpening on the Eastern front where about 15 corps sit motionless around Lithuania unengaged with my forces in the East Prussian AO. I'm using 100% AI effectiveness, so I expected to see an amphib landing or two, not to mention a Brit/French attack into Austria through Italy, but nothing that challenging has occurred the entire game. The only thing killing me is the Brit Blockade and upon turning off fog or war, only about 7 ships were being emplyed, yet I have lost 1-2% every turn...amazing. After seeing all that, my interest in playing the AI is not as great as it once was, yet I don't have time to play humans very often...bummer.

[Bill101]

Hi Peter

Thanks for the feedback.

Firstly, just to clarify, please could you let me know if you're playing using the initial release version or the first patch?

There is a script in place which represents US annoyance at the blockade, but it has a low chance of occurring so as not to put players off enforcing the blockade. I've certainly seen it in my games but it is something that isn't guaranteed to happen all the time.

The US will slowly move towards a belligerent position as the war progresses, but without any aggravating factors it will be very slow and even after having entered the war it will be some time before US ground forces can enter the war in any numbers, so in your game it looks likely to only be in the middle/end of 1918, if at all.

I'm interested in the British morale, as the sinking of their ships should have lowered it. Though in return have they sunk a lot of German ships, and also have their ground forces suffered many casualties?

With regards to Russia, how far into that country have you advanced and what is their National Morale level at the moment? It should be possible with an all out offensive against Russia to knock it out sooner so I'd be interested to hear more about what's happened here so that we can better assess Russia's strength.

Looking at the stats on the blockade, the number of ships you've mentioned would have a small impact on German morale but it shouldn't be that much per turn, so there may be other factors too. Other factors could be German MPP casualties, the position of the front lines (i.e. have German units captured many Russian resources) and what is the diplomatic status of neutrals like Holland, Norway and Sweden?

If you could let me know then hopefully we'll be able to come up with some solutions.

Bill

[Peter Palchinsky]

I'm playing latest patch, and the US entered the war in November 1917. I've cleared all of Poland and advanced to Vinitsa in the south, but meeting very heavy resistance in Lithuania area and haven't made much progress there. Russia is at 27% and I'm at 10% now. I'm so desperate to break this steady decline that I'm in the middle of crossing the North Sea to invade East Anglia and attempt a stab at London before all is lost. I'm hoping that if Russia goes Bolshevik then my NM will rise enough to allow me to take London, but racing against time.

I'm just stunned at the reasoning you give behind US entry given the ahistorical decisions I made to counter historical reasons for their entry. Not sure why CP should not be rewarded for following a truely defensive strategy and avoiding expansion of the war to America. Curious about the causes for American aggression.

Also, I did lose Holland's sympathy in 1915, but regained it by end of 1916. Brits appear to have only 2 BBs, 8 cruisers, and many DDs. I have 3 BBs, 2 crusiers, and 8 subs.

[Bill101]

Hi Peter

Please can you send me a saved turn so that I can look at this in more depth?

There are a few things you've mentioned that I'd like to check on.

If you can send it to bill.runacre@furysoftware.com that would be great.

Thanks!

[Peter Palchinsky]

Sent file to you, Bill. Thanks.

PP

[Bill101]

Got it, thanks.

I'll be taking a look and I'll get back to you on it either later or tomorrow.

Bill

[Iron Ranger]

I think from my limited experiace that the key to the OP post is the "unopposed" part. If the CP dont at least try to break the blockade then should suffer for it. Granted the feature might need some tweaking but from the few PvP games I have seen, Germany is unstopable in any one, two, or even three fronts if she really devotes herself to total ground war... but then loses for this very reason.. NM go's to 0.

[Bill101]

The loss to Germany caused by the blockade, if the blockade were fully imposed, would be just over 0.7% of Germany's starting National Morale per turn.

But the NM loss caused by each blockade tile in the North Sea can be offset by Germany holding a French or Russian city, or by holding two French or Russian towns.

Each blockade tile between Scotland and Iceland can be offset by holding one French or Russian town.

So, if Germany is defeated then the blockade is unlikely to be more than just a factor in her defeat, and unit casualties (measured not in the number of units destroyed but in the MPP cost of each strength point lost) are normally the biggest factor.

The best way to offset either casualties or the blockade is to capture as many French and Russian resources as possible, as early as possible, and hold them so as to drain your opponent's NM while also keeping yours up as much as possible.

That said, we are currently testing out an adjustment to the blockade effectiveness, as well as introducing the ability for players to spend some MPPs to slow their decline in National Morale.