Bill101 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 From the thread 1914 Call to Arms AAR - Bill v Dan, I thought it would be better to discuss this in a separate thread. A common mistake in WW1 games - Serbia got completely over-run in "the real war", and not only didn't surrender, but after a year of retraining & reorganising supplied 2 corps on the Macedonian front for the rest of the war! simlarly belgium and Romania - both of which were essentially almsot completely over-run except for small slivers of land, but were re-armed and retrained, kept several corps in the field, and in Romania's case arguably had a much more effective army after "conquest" than before!! Romania only "surrendered" with the fall of Tsarist russia - and rejoined the war on 10 november - the day before the armistice!! Hi Whether or not Belgium or Romania would have surrendered had they been totally overrun is an interesting question. Given that Albert of Belgium was negotiating with Germany during the war even though some territory remained in Entente hands, it may well be that he would have come to terms with the Germans if the German had conquered all of his country and advanced deeper into France. All the countries you've mentioned can already have units that carry on the fight from exile, as we've seen in this game with Dan's use of his Belgians. But your post has got me thinking about this subject. Whether a change can be made that will satisfy all requirements and not cause any issues in turn is the big question. I'll think on. As to countries surrendering, I wonder how different Serbia's march into exile in WWI is to Poland's withdrawal into Hungary and Romania in WWII? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhu Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 As to countries surrendering, I wonder how different Serbia's march into exile in WWI is to Poland's withdrawal into Hungary and Romania in WWII? Very similar - but then Poland didn't surrender either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Yes the question of what constitutes surrender is IMO an important one. Surrender invariably involves cessation of hostilities by all forces, overseas colonies & other resources such as shipping coming "under the fold" of the occupation, restoratoin of some level of civil government for the citizens, etc. This is more or less what happened in Romania when it surrendered in 1918, and to Luxembourg in 1914 - "the war is over for you" But in Serbia and Belgium it didn't - the civilian population was placed under very harsh military govt, they were "asset stripped", forced labour was imposed, etc. - but the war wasn't over for them - they fought on - as also with Poland in WW2. France in WW2 falls between the 2 - but IMO WW2 is not the same - WW1 was fought with almost Napoleonic idiplomatic rules - in WW2 most of those got chucked out the window by all sides! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 I agree that it's all about the definition, and I think we're on similar lines too. In 1915 Serbia saw that they were losing and made a conscious decision to evacuate as many soldiers and civilians as possible, thus enabling them to continue the fight from exile. If their escape route had been blocked, or their army destroyed in battle, then their subsequent contribution to the war would have been much less noticeable. I think that the game as it currently stands does replicate this to a large degree, because even after Serbia has surrendered there can be uprisings in both Belgrade and Pristina (Pristina was the focal point for a rising during the war). Plus if the Entente player has thought ahead, they can evacuate Serbian armed forces before their last capital falls, thus ensuring that the Serbs will still have a presence in the war later on. In my game with Dan, he did this with his Belgian forces defending Antwerp, because rather than see them surrender when I captured Antwerp, he evacuated them by sea so that they could fight on from exile. Russia will also have the option to form a Serbian Volunteer Corps after Serbia's surrender, representing the large numbers of Serbs, many of them prisoners of war that were captured serving in Austro-Hungarian units, who wanted to continue the fight. Thus Serbia's internal resistance, and the possibility to carry on the fight from exile, are already there in the game, with the surrender in the game representing the collapse of any Serbian armed forces still in the country when their last capital is taken, and the securing of their resources by their occupier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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