Problems with demo on my iMac

[MOSwas71331]

I'm finding the demo frustrating for a number of reasons.

1. I can't place units where I want them. I want to place a unit where it can see a Target Reference Point. I find a spot next to a hedgerow which can see a TRP on the other side of the hedgerow. When I try to place a unit there, the game sometimes places the unit on the wrong side of the hedgerow and sometimes places the unit in the open yards away from the hedgerow and with no one in the unit able to see the TRP. (I tried placing one unit in the same position six times, and each time the game placed the unit's men in different spots.)

2. In the basic demo, there's a US engineer unit sitting near what look like three thermos bottles (which I assume are satchel charges). How do I get the unit to pick up those charges? I see no command to do that (and there's no particular reason I should have to select which guys pick them up). Still, when the unit moves away from its initial position, the three bottles are abandoned. This is ridiculous.

3. I've tried to follow the instructions posted on a thread for winning the demo scenario, but nothing works as described. My scout teams get eliminated as soon as they step into open ground. My mortars won't set up. My tanks get hit repeatedly and destroyed or abandoned by their crews without ever being able to place smoke to shield the scouts.

4. Is there some "doctrine" which controls how units act? I can understand that some units might "instinctively" hide while others might normally try to get positions with better fields of fire. But everything in the game seems random and beyond my control. Units don't do what I tell them under any conditions. (Years ago I complained about CMBB not letting me order a vehicle to just follow a road. My control problems in CMBN are much worse.)

5. Is there some written guide to how to use the markers that appear on the screen? The demo manual doesn't seem to say anything about them. (The UTube videos show a lot of activity, but all the sound is game recordings with no explanation of what the demonstrator is doing. The activity on the screen jumps around so much, I get a headache just watching it.)

6. I'm a long-time CMBO-CMBB-CMAK fan, and I was hoping to enjoy this game. So far I haven't.

Here's a spoiler: the German side can get a tactical victory every time in "Busting the Bocage" by selecting "Cease Fire" in the setup phase. I thought I could get some idea of game play by positioning the German defenders and watching how the AI attempts to achieve the US goals.

Well, as I said in 1, I can't place the German units where I want them. It doesn't seem to matter where they are, however, because PzShreck teams hit Shermans they supposedly can't see. US artillery bombards empty German trenches to which no US unit has a line of sight. [A good game tactic is to place trenches in the open and let the Allied artillery fire off a lot of ammo at them.]

If you're hoping to sell this game to a new bunch of gamers, I'd advise you to develop a video with a US squad engaging a German light MG, and have the narrator explain all the symbols and controls.

[YankeeDog]

2. In the basic demo, there's a US engineer unit sitting near what look like three thermos bottles (which I assume are satchel charges). How do I get the unit to pick up those charges? I see no command to do that (and there's no particular reason I should have to select which guys pick them up). Still, when the unit moves away from its initial position, the three bottles are abandoned. This is ridiculous.

Sorry for not answering the rest; don't have a lot of time atm. But you gave me a good laugh with this one so I had to respond.

WWII Satchel charges look nothing like "thermos bottles". In fact, they're called "satchel charges" because they're stored in a satchel and look like, well, a satchel.

In any event, the game doesn't depict satchel charges lying around on the ground to pick up. If you have them, they'll be in the inventory of a squad or team.

My guess is that what you're looking at is a small bunch of milk cans; one of the many 'flavor objects' in the game to add to the atmosphere of the Norman countryside.

[sorry to make fun; but the image of combat engineers attempting to blow holes in bocage with milk cans was pretty funny...]

[Guest]

6. I'm a long-time CMBO-CMBB-CMAK fan, and I was hoping to enjoy this game. So far I haven't.

I'm sorry to hear this. I'll try to answer some of your questions. Hopefully others will be able to step in and fill in the gaps, and we can help you enjoy the demo a bit more.

I'm finding the demo frustrating for a number of reasons.

1. I can't place units where I want them. I want to place a unit where it can see a Target Reference Point. I find a spot next to a hedgerow which can see a TRP on the other side of the hedgerow. When I try to place a unit there, the game sometimes places the unit on the wrong side of the hedgerow and sometimes places the unit in the open yards away from the hedgerow and with no one in the unit able to see the TRP. (I tried placing one unit in the same position six times, and each time the game placed the unit's men in different spots.)

Units do deploy themselves as they see fit - they look for cover and a place they can shoot from - within the spot you choose for them. If the unit you're trying to place is a multi-team unit and you want a specific element (say, your AT team or LMG element) to be in a specific spot, try splitting the unit and placing that element exactly where you want to.

2. In the basic demo, there's a US engineer unit sitting near what look like three thermos bottles (which I assume are satchel charges). How do I get the unit to pick up those charges? I see no command to do that (and there's no particular reason I should have to select which guys pick them up). Still, when the unit moves away from its initial position, the three bottles are abandoned. This is ridiculous.

The three bottles are just flavor objects - just something the map designer put there to add "flavor" to the map. The engineers carry their satchel charges with them.

3. I've tried to follow the instructions posted on a thread for winning the demo scenario, but nothing works as described. My scout teams get eliminated as soon as they step into open ground. My mortars won't set up. My tanks get hit repeatedly and destroyed or abandoned by their crews without ever being able to place smoke to shield the scouts.

To set up your mortars, use the Deploy Weapon command ("/"). Following a pre-set script to win the scenario may not work, as the enemy may have alternate plans they're using and will be set up in different locations and looking to do different things.

4. Is there some "doctrine" which controls how units act? I can understand that some units might "instinctively" hide while others might normally try to get positions with better fields of fire. But everything in the game seems random and beyond my control. Units don't do what I tell them under any conditions. (Years ago I complained about CMBB not letting me order a vehicle to just follow a road. My control problems in CMBN are much worse.)

Units that have been under heavy fire, taken casualties, or been damaged will be less likely to be willing or able to carry out your orders. As mentioned earlier, units also have a certain amount of autonomy in choosing their final positions within an action spot. You can exercise finer control by breaking units down into teams.

5. Is there some written guide to how to use the markers that appear on the screen? The demo manual doesn't seem to say anything about them. (The UTube videos show a lot of activity, but all the sound is game recordings with no explanation of what the demonstrator is doing. The activity on the screen jumps around so much, I get a headache just watching it.)

Are you talking about the triangles at the top of the screen?

If you're hoping to sell this game to a new bunch of gamers, I'd advise you to develop a video with a US squad engaging a German light MG, and have the narrator explain all the symbols and controls.

That's an excellent idea. Thanks very much for the suggestion.

[MOSwas71331]

From the optimal play postings I've read, it seems there must be some way to open gaps in a hedgerow. I've read quite a few postings about the futility of tanks shelling hedgerows with HE to open a gap, so there must be some other method. Satchel charges seemed to be a good possibility, but the engineers don't have any. And emplacing a charge and detonating it are not among the squad's available actions.

So, in terms of game mechanics, how does an engineer squad open a gap? Where must I direct the squad (or its components if I must split the squad) to go and what must I direct the squad to do when it gets there?

[Hull down]

So, in terms of game mechanics, how does an engineer squad open a gap? Where must I direct the squad (or its components if I must split the squad) to go and what must I direct the squad to do when it gets there?

It is in the manual, but anyway if your engineers are on one side of a hedgerow, select them, hit the spacebar, select Blast and place the blast point on the other side of the hedgerow. You may have to blast again to open up a space large enough for a tank. Split squads may not both have charges. "Buying The Farm" gave me a good chance to practice, but...ahem...you have to be careful about what's on the other side of that hedgerow.

[MOSwas71331]

There seem to be around twenty downward pointing triangles at the top of the screen. When I select a unit, a box appears around one of the triangles, presumably the triangle corresponding to the unit. When I try to place my cursor on one of the triangles, the view scrolls rapidly -- which I would prefer not to happen.

1. Can I move my cursor to a triangle without having the view scroll? If I can, how do I do that?

2. Alternatively, if the triangles provide no useful information, how can I turn them off?

[MOSwas71331]

When I place a unit, I try to see what the unit should be able to see by "target"ing around the map. When I do this, I'm told much of the map can't be seen from the unit's location. After spending hours fiddling in this way with the initial placement of my German units in "Busting the Bocage", I gave up and started the game. Without giving my units anything more than cover arcs, my PzShrecks in the first five or six game minutes knocked out two of the four approaching Rhino Shermans.

I understand that not being able to see the ground under a Sherman isn't equivalent to not being able to see the Sherman, but my question remains. How can I pick good spots for units when the map interactions give me little useful information?

During unit setup, I'm also spending a lot of time trying to reorient the map to the same high level view of the entire map, as my fiddling with one unit's position scrolls the view all over the place. Is there some way to return in one or two keystrokes to a favorite map view?

[ClarkWGriswold]

Those triangles provide useful information (where your units and/or enemy units are located), but they are not clickable. Moving your mouse to the top of the screen scrolls by default. No way I'm aware of to change that (and I doubt anyone would really want to).

[ClarkWGriswold]

I understand that not being able to see the ground under a Sherman isn't equivalent to not being able to see the Sherman, but my question remains. How can I pick good spots for units when the map interactions give me little useful information?

How would you pick a good spot to locate a unit in real life or in CMBB? Get down to ground level and look. The Target command shows pretty well what you can or can't see, but there are a lot of variations in the ground, unlike the CMx1 games. You might be able to see one spot, not see the spot 10 feet further, then see again 20 feet further than that, due to undulations in the terrain. Use the Target tool as a guide, but not the be-all, end-all of where you should place units.

During unit setup, I'm also spending a lot of time trying to reorient the map to the same high level view of the entire map, as my fiddling with one unit's position scrolls the view all over the place. Is there some way to return in one or two keystrokes to a favorite map view?

I don't know of any way to quickly get you back to a "favorite" map position and orientation, but just like in CMBO/CMBB you can hit Tab to jump to a unit and use the number keys to adjust camera height. I'd be more concerned about why you're scrolling all over the place when positioning units. Is this intentional or inadvertent?

[MOSwas71331]

Yes, those triangles do show you that there's a unit somewhere underneath the point. But there's also a round symbol on the map showing you there's a unit near the symbol. And you can select that symbol and easily locate the corresponding men.

How does the triangle help?

By the way, is there some manual explaining the various game controls and symbology? The on-line manual for the demo doesn't do it, at least for me. [A complaint I've made vigorously on another thread.] I suspect there's a manual somewhere for the contemporary games set in the Middle East, but I haven't found it.

[ClarkWGriswold]

Yes, those triangles do show you that there's a unit somewhere underneath the point. But there's also a round symbol on the map showing you there's a unit near the symbol. And you can select that symbol and easily locate the corresponding men.

How does the triangle help?

The triangles work whether or not the unit is on screen. As long as the unit would fall within your field of view, a triangle is shown. Also, I'm pretty sure enemy unit triangles show even when you have a friendly unit selected that can't see enemy units (enemy unit icons disappear if your currently selected unit cannot see them).

By the way, is there some manual explaining the various game controls and symbology?

A pdf version of the full game manual comes with the demo.

[MOSwas71331]

I'm not positioning my units all over the place. I'm positioning them at positions which appear reasonable and then I target from those positions to see what can be seen from the positions. Targeting scrolls the view, and, if I accidentally click anywhere, I have to spend a lot of effort getting back to the view I started with.

I spend hours doing what I could do in a few minutes in CMBO-CMBB-CMAK.

And, while we're speaking of maps and views, how do I find gaps in hedgerows my men can easily traverse? Large gaps are usually evident in views from above, but I can't spot smaller gaps when I scroll alongside a hedgerow. I've been completely unsuccessful in attempting to duplicate the posted "beat the demo scenario" instructions / suggestions.

[stikkypixie]

I'm not positioning my units all over the place. I'm positioning them at positions which appear reasonable and then I target from those positions to see what can be seen from the positions. Targeting scrolls the view, and, if I accidentally click anywhere, I have to spend a lot of effort getting back to the view I started with.

I spend hours doing what I could do in a few minutes in CMBO-CMBB-CMAK.

And, while we're speaking of maps and views, how do I find gaps in hedgerows my men can easily traverse? Large gaps are usually evident in views from above, but I can't spot smaller gaps when I scroll alongside a hedgerow. I've been completely unsuccessful in attempting to duplicate the posted "beat the demo scenario" instructions / suggestions.

Use "tab" to jump back to the selected units. Use the preset camera views as a starting point to quickly find the camera angle you want. You can also use ctrl+click to jump around the map, and there is a button to reverse the camera 180°. You're probably still familiar with these as they were in CMAK/CMBB/CMBO.

[MOSwas71331]

I've got the pdf version of the manual, and I can't find that material in it. When I view the manual on-line, there's a big ?-mark in a square with rounded corners in the middle of each page. Printing the manual on my Epson color printer exhausted the Light Magenta cartridge after printing pages 91 to 200, so I'm missing the first 90 pages. (Fortunately, my printed material doesn't have those ?-marks.) As the ?-mark square covers a good chunk of each page, I can't find the info you say is there in my on-line file.

Tell me what pages have that info, and I'll print them out when my replacement Light Magenta cartridge arrives. [i reported my problems with the manual in another thread.]

[ClarkWGriswold]

I'm not positioning my units all over the place. I'm positioning them at positions which appear reasonable and then I target from those positions to see what can be seen from the positions. Targeting scrolls the view, and, if I accidentally click anywhere, I have to spend a lot of effort getting back to the view I started with.

I'm not sure what you mean by "targeting scrolls the view" and "if you accidentally click (the view changes)". Pushing your mouse cursor to the edges of the screen scrolls the view. You can also scroll using WASD keys (if using the default key layout) or by clicking and moving the mouse (my preferred method). But targeting units for fire doesn't change the view, and neither does accidentally clicking. Clicking an open area will de-select whatever unit you had selected, but it doesn't change the view at all.

If you accidentally click somewhere and deselect your unit you can always hit F12 to re-select it. Hit tab and you'll jump to the selected unit's location. I've also found the key for turning the camera 180* to be very helpful. I can select a unit, plot multiple waypoints, then turn the camera around to select units near the first. Ctl+click will jump you to a spot on the map, which can save a lot of time and scrolling.

I spend hours doing what I could do in a few minutes in CMBO-CMBB-CMAK.

This isn't CMBO/CMBB/CMAK. It's a totally new game. I'm not a huge fan of the controls either. In fact, I think they're frustrating as hell. But with a little practice and some shortcut keys, it's at least workable. You basically have two choices: 1) Spend some time to get accustomed to the new system and work within its constraints, or 2) Don't play. I've chosen the former. <shrug> If you haven't already, I'd suggest using the alternative hotkeys instead of the defaults. It gives the game more of a CMx1 control style that everyone I know finds much preferable. While you're in there you can customize the keys to your own liking.

And, while we're speaking of maps and views, how do I find gaps in hedgerows my men can easily traverse?

I don't know that there's an easy way to do this. I certainly haven't found a way, and I know that other people have also had this issue and suggested someway to highlight man-sized holes in the bocage. Whether or not that suggestion will be implemented, I have no idea (but doubt it).

[ClarkWGriswold]

I've got the pdf version of the manual, and I can't find that material in it. When I view the manual on-line, there's a big ?-mark in a square with rounded corners in the middle of each page. Printing the manual on my Epson color printer exhausted the Light Magenta cartridge after printing pages 91 to 200, so I'm missing the first 90 pages. (Fortunately, my printed material doesn't have those ?-marks.) As the ?-mark square covers a good chunk of each page, I can't find the info you say is there in my on-line file.

Tell me what pages have that info, and I'll print them out when my replacement Light Magenta cartridge arrives. [i reported my problems with the manual in another thread.]

What info is it you can't seem to find? If you're not capable of reading the manual (or better yet, doing a keyword search since it's a digital document), then I'm not sure there's much more anyone here can do to help you.

You might also want to look into printing items as black and white only if you don't want to use up expensive color cartridges to print a bunch of brown pages.

[stikkypixie]

I've got the pdf version of the manual, and I can't find that material in it. When I view the manual on-line, there's a big ?-mark in a square with rounded corners in the middle of each page. Printing the manual on my Epson color printer exhausted the Light Magenta cartridge after printing pages 91 to 200, so I'm missing the first 90 pages. (Fortunately, my printed material doesn't have those ?-marks.) As the ?-mark square covers a good chunk of each page, I can't find the info you say is there in my on-line file.

Tell me what pages have that info, and I'll print them out when my replacement Light Magenta cartridge arrives. [i reported my problems with the manual in another thread.]

That would be page 11 on the manual where all the keyboard and mouse commands are listed. I *highly* recommend for giving orders you either use the space bar for the pop menu or use the "alternative hotkeys.txt" to make the learning curve slightly less steep. Unless your reply was not directed to me of course.

[YankeeDog]

Re: finding gaps in hedgerows.

If you don't like getting down to grunt level and hunting for them, here's the best way I've been able to find to do it quickly:

Go up to a higher view level (4 is usually good). Temporarily drop the 3D model level of detail down to the lowest setting (just hit the "{" key a few times to do this on the fly, in game).

At this very basic graphics level, hedgerows will be depicted as 2-dimensional green walls. This makes it very easy to see the small gaps.

As soon as you've figure out where the gaps are, you can bring the level of detail back up to whatever your machine can stand by hitting the "}" key.