Query re enemy Arty attack and smoke

[pcelt]

If the enemy have set up an arty barrage but before it physically commences you have set up a smoke screen in front of your units --is there any effect on the accuracy or delivery of the enemy barrage actually targetted before the smoke screen appeared.

[Ankh Morpork]

It shouldnt matter - however, I have no idea if it does. Perhaps we should run a couple of scenarios to check it out?

[YankeeDog]

If it works like CMSF, then it may; it depends on whether or not the smoke interferes with the ability of whichever enemy unit is calling in the barrage to see where the spotting rounds fall.

Also, I've never been able to definitively confirm this, but it seems that the game has some sort of adjustment for spotting rounds that allows units calling in artillery to "see" a spotting round that isn't technically in LOS, but is close enough that they'd probably know where it fell -- for example, if a spotting round falls just behind the crest of a hill or a building, the spotter can't see the actual point on the ground where the shell fell, but probably would be able to make a pretty good guess as to the exact location based on the smoke plume, etc.

Again, I can't say for sure exactly now all this works, but I'm pretty confident that the game engine has some sort of adjustment to the spotting routine for situations like the above, based on my play experience (again, going mostly off of CMSF here).

Also, keep in mind that there's a delay of at least 15 seconds (in the case of small mortars), to a minute or even more (in the case of larger arty assets) between impact of the the final spotting round and the impact of the first salvo of "Fire for Effect" -- flight time of arty rounds is modeled in the game. And obviously, a smoke screen is not going to interfere with a barrage once the guns have made their final adjustments and the shells are actually in the air... so you need to consider how close you think the enemy is to getting "Fire for Effect", and how long it's going to take you to establish the smoke screen, before trying this tactic.

Long and short of it is, yes; it should be possible to interfere with the calling in of an arty barrage via a smoke screen. But it may be tricky to do so, especially if you don't know the exact location of the spotter. In most situations, you will probably need to put down a pretty large smoke screen to be confident that you're blocking enough of the spotter's LOS. And you will need to get the smoke down and established early enough that the artillery hasn't already gained a firing solution.

Cheers,

YD

[TheVulture]

In most situations, you will probably need to put down a pretty large smoke screen to be confident that you're blocking enough of the spotter's LOS.

That's what you always want to target the smoke on the target you want to blind, rather than between you and it.

[pcelt]

Thanks for your very useful observations.

What lies behind this query is that I have recently been playing some smallish Infantry-only QBs as attacker and invariably I am met in turn 1 (we go) with a harrowing arty barrage in my start-out area before I have time to move much and I tend to lose many units with others in panic etc. I guess it is called as a pre-battle preparatory barrage as heavy arty falls in Turn 1.

Is there any good way to minimise or counter these losses --often the start-up area is not very large so targetting is not too difficult for the defending AI and catches my force in a very vulnerable state.

Any reflections,ideas or suggestions please......

[YankeeDog]

That's what you always want to target the smoke on the target you want to blind, rather than between you and it.

Yep. This would probably be pretty effective. Then again, if you know where the spotter is, and you can hit him with smoke, you can probably also hit him with HE, which will also screw up the Arty call, and has a higher chance of wounding/killing him. HE will take effect faster as well, since smoke takes time to develop. Overall, I'd choose the HE in this situation.

[akd]

Thanks for your very useful observations.

What lies behind this query is that I have recently been playing some smallish Infantry-only QBs as attacker and invariably I am met in turn 1 (we go) with a harrowing arty barrage in my start-out area before I have time to move much and I tend to lose many units with others in panic etc. I guess it is called as a pre-battle preparatory barrage as heavy arty falls in Turn 1.

Is there any good way to minimise or counter these losses --often the start-up area is not very large so targetting is not too difficult for the defending AI and catches my force in a very vulnerable state.

Any reflections,ideas or suggestions please......

Pre-planned barrages don't have a spotting phase, so there is no way to interrupt them. I would either seek alternate routes that are less likely to be targeted or wait them out.

[pcelt]

akd -thanks for your observations--the problem is that in many of these QBs the setup zone is a relatively small rectangle at one map side and you have no time to move from it so I have tried sitting it out but with a really heavy calibre barrage you cant avoid some extremely crippling effects in the setup zone before the battle ensues--

Presume there is no really useful counter measure -just have to take it on the chin .......

[zukkov]

well i haven't experienced pre-bombardment yet in cmx2, but i remember in x1, you didn't want any soldiers left exposed after setup or the ai would usually shell what they could see. so the trick was to have them in cover or behind a slope or anywhere they couldn't be seen after you clicked the go button to end the setup phase...

[akd]

akd -thanks for your observations--the problem is that in many of these QBs the setup zone is a relatively small rectangle at one map side and you have no time to move from it so I have tried sitting it out but with a really heavy calibre barrage you cant avoid some extremely crippling effects in the setup zone before the battle ensues--

Presume there is no really useful counter measure -just have to take it on the chin .......

Hmm...AI plan should not be targeting the actual player setup zone. Might be a problem with the particular QB map.

[pcelt]

Thanks AKD but thats what appears to be happening--the rectangular setup zone has been plastered with large calibre shells in Turn 1.

I'll check what happens with other maps re setup zone and Turn 1 Arty

Cheers.....

[pcelt]

Thanks AKD-but thats what appears to be happening--a very large calibre saturation barrage on the setup zone in Turn 1.

I'll see what happens with similar battles with other maps---Cheers.