Abrams with IR/Optics knocked out instantly detects wire-guided ATGM launches

[IMHO]

I launch Malyutka 3x that is wire-guided at the ***back*** of an Abrams SEP with knocked out IR/Optics (checked by "surrendering") at a distance of 1Km. Abrams instantly turns turret in the direction of the launcher, acquires target and starts firing. Launcher is in a trench in a bush - not easy to spot. So how may it happen that:

1. Abrams instantly detects ATGM launch?

2. Abrams instantly acquires launcher position.

"Instantly" means that visually it takes time to train the tube but no time to acquire the target. In terms of timing "instantly" means many times less than for an Abrams with IR/Optics present to detect a BMP standing in the wide open in the Abrams' frontal arc. Immediate detection works at all angles irrespective of IR/Optics but only for all ATGMs. Change Malyutka for BMP firing the gun and it takes time to determine the source of fire.

So how may it happen? AFAIK even SEP does not have a doppler radar and, probably, even no laser painting detector (and that's useless with Malyutka anyway).

Regards,

Roman

[stikkypixie]

I have seen this behaviour and I always thought it was due to luck or the IR. What was the experience level of the crew? Do you have a save game?

[IMHO]

1. Frankly speaking my guess would be that it might be a code "feature". The tank somehow "learns" of ATGMs launched. Shooting at the tank with a BMP gun does not produce the same "instant" behavior - i.e. the tank correctly reacts in terms of target detection/acquisition time to IR/Optics disabled/enabled and to front/side/back angles. But "feature" is just a guess so it would be beneficial if Battlefront could comment on this. This might give a critical reduction in ATGM value - i.e. you have to pay with one ATGM team for every Abrams knocked out whatever circumstances are (Abrams always manages to put at least one shot)

2. I'll do some more experimenting with different tanks, maps and ATGM targeted fire vs. area fire as at least Bradley hasn't shown the same behavior. So will post the saves.

[IMHO]

1. First impression is it seems like a bug. Tank instantly acquires ATGM team location ONLY if the tankk was designated as a target for the ATGM. If you make area fire with ATGM then acquisition time seems normal even if the rocket actually hits the tank. Plus only the first ATGM team to launch the rocked at the tank is locked on - other teams are "forgotten" even if they fire a fraction of a second later. All other conditions apply - Abrams is neither sensitive to the angle it's fired upon (can fire at the back - same instant effect) nor to the availability of IR/Optics.

2. Can't attach a save - too large. But I play with Tactical Vignette 98-3, a sole Abrams M1A2 and a platoon of AT-3B. The tank is initially facing away from ATGMs at ~900m distance.

[stikkypixie]

1. First impression is it seems like a bug. Tank instantly acquires ATGM team location ONLY if the tankk was designated as a target for the ATGM. If you make area fire with ATGM then acquisition time seems normal even if the rocket actually hits the tank. Plus only the first ATGM team to launch the rocked at the tank is locked on - other teams are "forgotten" even if they fire a fraction of a second later. All other conditions apply - Abrams is neither sensitive to the angle it's fired upon (can fire at the back - same instant effect) nor to the availability of IR/Optics.

2. Can't attach a save - too large. But I play with Tactical Vignette 98-3, a sole Abrams M1A2 and a platoon of AT-3B. The tank is initially facing away from ATGMs at ~900m distance.

You can't attach it to forum. What usually happens is that a beta tester sees it and sends it to the developer team. You can even try to contact them directly. Don't know if they like that though.

[Damian90]

Do You considered a possibility that crew just saw an fire from ATGM's engine when it was launched? It should not be a big problem to see a flash from launching engine, especially if this is some newer M1 tank variant like M1A1SA or M1A2SEP with 2nd generation FLIR and a new FCS with new optoelectronics that have max zoom 50x (max digital zoom for 13x normal zoom, there is also 25x digital zoom for 13x normal zoom) so this machine have a really nice FCS, better than any tank modelled in game.

[IMHO]

1. Well, we can speculate about the human logic behind this or that behavior of the code but to me it seems useless - only the development team knows why it was done this way. So for me the code just behaves this way No offense here, I beg.

2. IMHO, some particular behavior - like no instant lock for ATGM area fire or gunfire invalidates the logic you offer.

3. Detecting ATGM launches by heat signature (flash) is an obvious idea. I'm sure just as we speak enough people are busy writing code to discriminate between AT-14 exhaust spectrum and pesky RPG-7V one But in real life IT IS very difficult. Consider scanning wide-field-of-view to detect vs. "pointed" lock/track/discriminate. Add parasite reflections etc. So as of now it's doppler radar.

[IMHO]

Let's discuss it in stikkypixie's thread here http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=96296. He was the first to note the behavior.