Naval movement question

[david12345]

It seems that my naval units, ships and transports often cannot move as far as the action points would make me think they could move. For example, a german cruiser in port with supply 10 in my last turn moved 2 less than the action points and an amphib one less the same turn. no enemy units were around, and I can see the graphic counting off the movement squares, so I know the ships aren't taking the long way around or something like that.

I don't remember seeing this before the patch, or before in the series (though I may be wrong).

Anyone else having this problem? Is it a bug?

Does weather (rough seas) etc. make them move less than the movement points?

thanx

dave

[alexandre le grand]

Weather at sea affect the movement... i think must be that in your case

[Hubert Cater]

What does it show in the unit properties window when you click on your unit in terms of available action points?

When you select the final movement position, what does the count show in terms of how many action points it will cost to move there?

[david12345]

I tinkered around and found out that both moves went through straits (one by denmark, the other by hong kong).Well that makes sense, but I never noticed it before.

sorry.

dave

[Hubert Cater]

No problem

[Ludi1867]

The naval movement penalty in SC for ‘straits’ or confined waters is, to be blunt, inaccurate. Those bodies of water where naval forces really would move a little more slowly – Straits of Malacca, the gut near Copenhagen – are already handled by requiring control of adjacent land masses for a naval force to pass through. The straits or confined waters where a naval movement is penalized in the actual game are generally very large (in naval terms) and forcing a naval unit to pay a penalty makes a very slow moving naval unit even slower.

A great example is an RN Destroyer moving through the Irish Sea (the water between England and Scotland on one side, and Ireland on the other). With ten movement points, an RN DD (in the worst case) may only move FIVE squares because of the penalty! I just ran into this ridiculous penalty in a game I am playing, and I am beyond words in disbelief at the stupidity of it.

The RN moved through the Irish Sea at good speeds throughout the Second World War. The Irish Sea is also a fairly large body of water – it is only on a map such as in Global that it looks small.

Is there a simple solution? Absolutely. Remove the pseudo tactical naval movement penalty now imposed on naval units in narrow waters – naval units already move VERY slowly anyway. The existing barrier to naval movement in really narrow straits is fine – reflects control of these very narrow waters by coastal artillery and mining - but the movement penalty itself for waters that are defined as ‘confined’ in the game is simply not justifiable in historical terms. It is a strictly ‘gamey’ artifact.

[Hubert Cater]

Ludi,

Is this for a custom campaign? Just looking at the map for the default games the narrows situation you describe between Ireland and England does not seem to exist?

[Ludi1867]

Hi Hubert

No, this is a standard World at War, start in 1939 campaign, PBEM and 1st patch. I just retried the turn (it is an old one now), and the destroyer HMS AMETHYST, starting from the port of Bristol at square 65, 13 can only reach square 65, 8 if headed north through the Irish Sea. The movement point cost indicated for this is 10, while the actual number of squares travelled is 5. I really think the whole 2 point penalty for moving naval units through what SC describes as narrow waters is not warranted given the VERY slow naval movement that exists in the game. The situation described in the Irish Sea, for an ALLIED destroyer, is simply laughable. I will send a saved move to support.

While on silly SC naval aspects, I also have a U-Boat frozen in the ice off Greenland right now. This did not happen during the war. U-boats would occasionally operate close to the ice edge, especially when attacking Murmansk convoys, but a U-boat would be destroyed if it was actually caught in the ice. U-boats almost always had a simple evasion technique – dive and head for open water. To leave a U-boat stuck in ice is simply silly, and should not happen – force the U-boat into open water is the logical (and historical) thing that should happen. Perhaps add a random roll for damage, as for stormy weather, as any U-boat commander with any intelligence – and most of them were good seamen – would keep his U-boat from being stuck in the ice.

[Hubert Cater]

Ok I see your misunderstanding, it is not actually an issue with the narrows as you've described because in game terms there are no narrows there other than how the map has been laid out to appear like a narrowed body of water, i.e. the only narrow points on the map that exact an additional movement cost are tiles that are both Land + Water tiles such as the ones located at 79,14 and 89,12 etc.

After looking at your turn, what is causing the limited movement for you here are the weather effects and more specifically the rain/fog along those coastal tiles. We had in a previous releases removed the storm penalties for naval units but the rain/fog penalties remain as these are for all units and only affect naval units that proceed along coastal tiles. For example out at open sea this will not reduce naval unit movement.

For subs I'll discuss this one with the design team to see what they might think and make any changes as applicable.