Terrible Newbie Question re IEDs & Triggerman (men)

[egamarl]

I've read the manual, the FAQ and the Forum (well not ALL of the forum) and I'm having a problem understanding how a particular 'fighter' controls a particular IED, and - if the IED fails to detonate - whether it was defective, or the triggerman was 'panicked'/incapacitated or out of LoS etc etc.

I'm just playing my first very simple battle (Abu Susah) to get used to the new way of doing (I haven't played CM for YEARS ... I'd forgotten just what an outstanding game it was) in which I have six IEDs:

One each of small, medium and large of type Cell &

One each of small, medium and large of type Radio

The icons seem to be identical for each size and type (Cell vs Radio*) of IED (a different icon would maybe be helpful to discriminate type). I appear to have two triggermen (Abou Witha, Radio; Madani, Cell). This tells me - I assume - that a single triggerman appears to be able to trigger more than one IED of a particular type. (It does not yet tell me the implication of having more than one triggerman of a particular type in any one scenario, but that's maybe for later).

From the manual I learn "Activation is not just a matter of specifying a target ... at the time the Target command is used [the triggerman] must be in good shape (e.g. not panicked), have an undamaged trigger device in its inventory, be within the maximum range (and/or LOS if required) of the IED, and pass a reliability check. The reliability check determines if the IED itself, or the ability to detonate it, has failed.

Now, I cannot find anywhere that tells me how I can know (a) whether the triggerman's device is damaged or not, ( what the maximum range (of, presumably, the triggering device) is, © whether the specific IED requires LoS or not and (d) whether the 'reliability check' has been passed.

The manual also appears to suggest that all of these conditions only have to be met at the time the IED is 'activated' not at the time it is detonated - which seems a little odd. If the triggerman is killed between activation and a target 'arriving' the IED will apparently still detonate? Isn't that just what most folks would call a "mine"?

Now, as far as (d) is concerned, that will, I imagine, be determined somewhere in the 'AI' of the game scenario, and it whether or not it will go 'boom' depends on a number of conditions, including 'luck'. I also know I can determine the 'shape' (or morale as I would prefer to call it ) of the triggerman at the time the device is targeted.

That's all fine: but how can I find out whether or not conditions (a), ( and © have been met at either activation time or detonation time (whichever is important).

I must have missed something somewhere, but the manual doesn't seem to have terribly much in it about these terribly effective weapons, the FAQ in the repository doesn't really cover IEDS and there doesn't seem to be a lot in the tactics section either. I don't suppose EVERYONE is playing the Americans, are they?

Thanks very much for any help and your patience and forbearance if this is something quite obvious.

* No command wire types? Wasn't one like that just defused in the last weeks in Ireland - or are they just SO last century?

[Cpl Steiner]

* No command wire types? Wasn't one like that just defused in the last weeks in Ireland - or are they just SO last century?

There are WIRE, cell and radio IED specialists available in the editor. Take another look.

The procedure to detonate them is to click the IED and then select the "Target" command. You then have to either a) click anywhere on the map, or click on a specific enemy unit, using the the target command. This makes the IED active, in the sense that you, the player, want the IED to detonate. The AI will always activate its IEDs at mission start as far as I am aware.

From the manual:

"Wire - shortest distance (about 100m), 10% failure rate"

"Radio - medium distance (about 300m), requires LOS, 20% failure rate"

"Cell Phone - long distance (about 600m), 10% failure rate"

So, you only need LOS to the bomb in order to send the signal to detonate it if you are using a radio IED.

If the IED is a dud, I am pretty sure this is shown as text in the control panel for the weapon.

[EDIT]

Just retried the "Abu Susah" scenario to confirm and they IEDs do detonate. What you have to remember when playing RED in this scenario is that for the radio IEDs to go off the trigger-man needs to be able to see the IED at the time the enemy unit is next to it. Activation merely records your intention, as the player, to detonate the IED at a suitable opportunity. The trigger-man will perform the actual detonation, and for that, he needs to know that an enemy unit is by the IED. For cell-phone ones I think the difference is pretty subtle, i.e. he needs to know there is a target to destroy, i.e. LOS to intended target, but the IED itself could be somewhat out of sight, perhaps behind a wall.

[EDIT2]

You an tell the trigger-man is able to detonate an IED because the bomb's "Target" order will be available. If the trigger-man, for whatever reason, cannot detonate the bomb at any given time, the Target command won't be available.

If the bomb turns out to be a dud, then instead of showing "Medium Radio IED (Activated)" it will show "Medium Radio IED (Malfunction)".

[egamarl]

D'oh. I hadn't read the manual well enough - I completely missed the bit at the top of Page 105 - which I now found by searching for the text you quoted! Thanks for taking the time to do that! (I shall now read it more thoroughly for all the other snippets I've missed, too)

Are you able to say though that the LoS for radio IEDs is needed only for ACTIVATION rather than detonation - or vice versa - or indeed for both events? My reading of the manual suggests at activation only, but that doesn't make sense if you can target a specific unit (say vehicle three in a convoy of 5). In that case common-sense would suggest that you need LoS/be within range for detonation not just activation, although the manual really doesn't make it clear. Of course, I might be being a pedantic dullard and really the manual MEANS that range/LoS conditions have to be met for both activation AND detonation.

The bit from the manual (recently - ahem - found at the bottom of p104 - thank you) says "The different types determine ... the distance at which the triggerman can be positioned". but the manual then goes on about activation, not detonation. Should I read that sentence in the manual to be " The different types determine ... the distance at which the triggerman can be positioned when the IED is activated AND when it is subsequently detonated"

Thanks VM for your input Cpl Steiner, I'm going to see what I can do "in game" to understand this a bit better.

Edit: Just read your edits, Cpl Steiner: they answered the questions you didn't know I had asked in this post! Thanks again. A career in Military Intelligence clearly yours for the asking.

[Cpl Steiner]

Hi egamarl,

Having played around with the "Abu Susah" scenario a few times today, it is quite difficult to use the trigger-men effectively - which I guess is a game-balancing thing to make it so the BLUE side has ways of avoiding being blown up.

The problem is that the trigger-man needs to be able to activate the IED (i.e. the IED's "Target" order is available) at the moment the intended enemy target is next to the IED. For this to happen, he can't be hiding behind a wall or something like that - he needs to have eyes on the IED. This quite often results in the trigger-man being shot - or more foolishly - engaging the enemy with his AK47, thus giving away his position. It does not help that he can't be in two places at once, so you may need to have the trigger-man switch positions as the enemy's approach routes are identified.

I tried hiding the trigger-man and giving him short covered arc orders to prevent him firing on the enemy but this tended to prevent him detonating the IED as well!

For the "Abu Susah" scenario you could try hiding the Radio IED triggerman on the balcony of the mosque near the crossroads. Also move out any other Uncons so they don't draw attention to his position. From this vantage-point he has LOS to all three Radio IEDs in their initial scenario setup locations (don't forget, you can move them). If he unhides at just the right time, he will hopefully detonate an IED without engaging the enemy with his AK or getting shot first.

[EDIT]

One final thing. I think the confusion you are experiencing is because "Shock Force" can be played in real-time or turn-based mode. In real-time mode, you could obviously anticipate when the bomb needs to be activated and click the "Target" order at just the right time, but for turn-based mode, there is no way the player could be expected to guess exactly at what time in the 60 second turn the IED needs to be triggered. Thus, BFC have given us this "pre-activation" feature to tell the trigger-man to attempt to take out the enemy with the IED. However, during the turn, the trigger-man still has to push the button at the moment the IED detonates, at which time he needs to be in good condition, have a working trigger device and IED, and generally have eyes on the target area and the device.

[MikeyD]

Things get even more complicated in the Brit module. Some vehicles carry cel IED jammers so you can't send a signal to your bomb to explode as it passes. This was a recently introduced feature. Only mine (pressure plate) IEDs and line-connected IEDs work on those vehicles.

I don't know if they back-dated any. U.S. vehicles with jammers. (runs to the game) -Just checked. No Bradleys or Strykers have ECM jammers. Only the Brits show the ECM icons in the menu.