c3k Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Gents, Something I noted while playing one of the UK scenarios: I'd set my 2 sniper teams in the upper floors of two buildings. (Yeah, they used the friggin' balconies - they won't last long.) Anyway, one of the teams spotted some Syrians on a rooftop with a grenade launcher. The range was approximately 400+ meters. The sniper fired once with his rifle, then switched to his L85. There were more Syrians left. There were no other closer Syrians. This may be similar: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=88322&highlight=sniper Savegame available. My recollection of the event may not be perfect...but I only noted it because I'd read something similar here. I don't know if the sniper algorithm should be tweaked or not. Should a sniper use his long-range gun for targets at 400 meters? Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Edit the above: Grrrr....savegame is for AFTER weapon switch. Range is about 250 meters. The sniper may've dropped the M115(?) due to a lack of ammo. The battle starts with a significantly lower state of supply than normal. It's my fault I did not check the linked ammo stats first. In a perfect world, I could quietly retract the original post and go back to getting my Brits back on the attack... Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 You do know that if you don't give a "face" command the unit won't use the balcony? More 1.2 goodness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Other Means, No! I did not know that. Time for a bit of a move and return to get them off their balcony. Especially so since now the sniper is using his M115. Grrr... I guess he HAD ammo all along. Time to delve into sniper targeting/weapon use. Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 M115? The British designation is L-numbers for land equipment L115A3 [/picky] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Ah, that's what I get for typing whilst tired. "L" it is. However, that still doesn't change the fact that while targeting enemy teams at 260 meters the sniper uses his L85 instead of his L115A3. It's more sporting, sure. I mean, we all expect the Brits to have a superior sense of sportsmanship; that's what they're known for. But it may be a bit too sporting to use a weapon which will miss when you have the ability to use a weapon which will hit. Especially when firing at an enemy Kornet team. But that's just me... In sum: the sniper "prefers" his backup weapon at a medium range. Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Well, it's worth noting that the L115A3 is a bolt-action rifle with a 5-round mag. While very accurate, as the range gets shorter, at some point it's going to make sense for the sniper to switch to the higher ROF L85. After all, he just needs to hit the enemy in the kill zone, not thread the bullet through his ear hole... With this said, 250m does seem like a long range for this switch to happen. I would think the break-even point where the L115 and the L85 would be about equally effective for a good shooter would be somewhere sub-200m. But I'm not a sniper, so what do I know? Maybe for a really good shooter, the L85 is plenty accurate at 250m, and the L115 offers no real advantage. One question that probably affects this is what kind of scope/sight the L85s that British snipers carry as a backup weapon have mounted. If they have the SUSAT sight on the L85, then the L85 may actually be superior to the L115 for shooting at ranges out as far as 300m or so. You really don't need better than 4x mag for shooting at this kind of range, and semi-auto/burst capability and larger mag would be a definite advantage. In any event, it sounds like this is a good AI behavior that might need some tweaking. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Yeah, I'm thinking a tweak would be nice. All I know is that the sniper is MISSING with his L85. I'd think (guess/hope?) that he could hit a man 250m away with the L115A3 who's manning a Kornet. Of course, this will be moot since the Kornet team must be almost out of missiles, based on how many of my vehicles they've destroyed. It would've been nice for my sniper team in overwatch to actually suppress, if not kill, the Kornet guys. That's what keeps this game fun... Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Yeah, I'm thinking a tweak would be nice. All I know is that the sniper is MISSING with his L85. I'd think (guess/hope?) that he could hit a man 250m away with the L115A3 who's manning a Kornet. Of course, this will be moot since the Kornet team must be almost out of missiles, based on how many of my vehicles they've destroyed. It would've been nice for my sniper team in overwatch to actually suppress, if not kill, the Kornet guys. That's what keeps this game fun... Thanks, Ken Well, that could be a slightly different issue; it could be that the sniper is switching to the L85 at the correct range, but that the sniper's lethality with the L85 needs to be bumped up a few notches. The game shouldn't treat an unsuppressed, unspotted sniper using a scoped L85 the same as Joe rifleman in the same situation with the same equipment; the former has received far more specialized training for this exact situation and so will be far more lethal. Once the sniper gets spotted and the things turn into a 2-way firefight, it's a different matter. Once lead is going both ways, it's more about volume of fire than pinpoint accuracy and the sniper is probably only marginally more effective than Joe Rifleman. But that first unspotted, aimed shot from a trained sniper should be very deadly, especially at ranges like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 At this point, to the best of my knowledge, the sniper team has received zero rounds of incoming fire. He appears to be totally unsuppressed. The OTHER sniper team (yes, I have two) shows the same weapons behavior under similar conditions; enemy support weapon team at 250 meters, unsuppressed, keeps swapping to L85. Shrug... Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 That doesn't make sense, why would he switch weapons when he's not taking fire (and thus can take his time and fire away at will). Unless he felt it was such an easy shot he didn't need to waste sniper ammo (250 yards is nothing for a sniper). That doesn't necessarily make sense, either, because what if he gets into trouble later and needs his assault rifle to fend off nearby enemies and is now low on ammo for it? That's why teams have assault rifles, to deal with trouble if they need to. But even with the assault rifle, a Brit sniper is going to be deadly effective at that range, most shots would be hits. With his sniper rifle, he would almost never miss. Sounds like some adjustments for snipers need to be made. First off, only use sniper rifle, unless the enemy is very close or one is taking so much fire that heavy return fire is required. Secondly, they should be more deadly than even an elite normal soldier is with an assault rifle, especially at medium (100+?) and longer ranges, where their skills would make the most difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarin_lavage Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 The sniper uses an Accuracy International rifle that uses a special caliber Lapua magnum round. He can't just grab a 7.62 mm ammo box and go. I think either he runs out and switches to his secondary weapon in the game when this happens or he is close enough. The CO by himself has a lesser version of this rifle that fires regular 7.62 ammo and is happy to shoot it all day long. He will not fire if he has an AT4 on his back. I found that out by not letting him take one and he has engaged targets since. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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