Rpg-30

[twogunz]

When you throw lots of "crap" at a target someone actually has to do it. The poor sap carrying teh crap launcher is gonna be weighed down. Stalin called them useful idiots Question is whose gonna do teh dirty deed and launch it while exposed

Wasn't thinking so much about trying to hit the same spot with two seperately fired RPGs; rather that two shots = double the chance of one of them getting lucky and slipping through the active defense, hitting something important etc. AIUI, current active defense systems are far from perfect, and many also have limited charges and/or a refractory period after an intercept. So one way to defeat an active defense system is just launch as much crap as possible at the tank, as quickly as possible.

As for the weight and bulk thing, I dunno. Certainly looks a lot more bulky than the RPG-7. Probably similar to the RPG-29, tho. Then again, the latter has a much longer range. Weight and bulk is a much bigger deal if you have to sneak within 200m of the tank to have a decent shot at a hit.

My SWAG, the RPG-30 system would probably be most useful with highly trained troops in dense (e.g. urban) environments. If there's a delay between the launches, the operator needs to have a very steady hand and mental discipline to keep the thing still. Not the kind of thing your typical militia irregular is likely to be very good at.

Seems to me, the skill for using a weapon like this would be very similar to firing a flintlock. Most beginning blackpowder shooters flinch on the flash of the primer ignition, and throw off their aim before the main charge ignites and sends the ball out of the barrel. Takes a fair amount of practice to supress this reflex response and hit what you're aiming at.

Cheers,

YD

[Damian90]

RPG-30 is probably not longer under development and it was not fielded.

[twogunz]

Interesting photo the precursor round is cambered outward at the exhaust end and inwards at the muzzle . This would indicate a significant velocty difference of the two rounds the rpg itself and the pecusror. The camber would compensate for a line of sight zero so to speak at a certain distance so that round impacts would be close to each other. What say ya,ll

Wikipedia says:

No much more info for now. Got pics from another board.

Have a look here:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146447

[Damian90]

I will say that this is another unsucessfull design. Main RPG round will never hit at the same place as "precursor", mainly because precursor is a dummy intended to be intercepted by APS and there is big chance that APS will not get enough time to reload before main round will hit target.

[twogunz]

The main round does not need to impact the same spot as the precusror. Remember it is a decoy. The main round need only impact where the operator aims it. This system is not a "shot both rounds to the same point of impact" type of thing. efective range 200 meters past that the drop of the precursor round like any rounds being fired is subject to velocity drop off from drag and gravity pulling it to earth. Many factors involved in this new weapon system. Reloads in APS systems can be adjusted through programming or the nuymber of units placed on the target four instead of two units would defeat the RPG30 completely. One APS would fire at teh precusro leaving thee others loaded ready to go one of them on the same side as the one firing. Software and hardware solutions abound.

[LongLeftFlank]

The poor sap carrying teh crap launcher is gonna be weighed down. Stalin called them useful idiots

Wait, wasn't it Lenin, and wasn't he referring to Communist sympathizers in the Western bourgeoisie? So you're saying the launcher should be carried around by left-wing hipsters?

That's already been thought of by my countryman who never met a Communist he didn't like,

[LJFHutch]

Hmm, forget what they're called but the shaped charge plastic + explosive things, couldn't you put one of those in a missile and have it eject to the side/behind etc at random to trick the APS? So as it's about to be intercepted the missile ejects the shaped charge to the side a few meters.

Anyhow, the RPG-30 is an interesting concept but it does seem like a bit of a temporary solution to me.

[Damian90]

Hmm, forget what they're called but the shaped charge plastic + explosive things, couldn't you put one of those in a missile and have it eject to the side/behind etc at random to trick the APS? So as it's about to be intercepted the missile ejects the shaped charge to the side a few meters.

Forget about it, pure fantasy.

Anyhow, the RPG-30 is an interesting concept but it does seem like a bit of a temporary solution to me.

Future in case of APS lays in multichannel systems. One possibility in future is that HEAT warheads wil be to easy to destroy by APS and only APFSDS ammo can be effective.

[LJFHutch]

Forget about it, pure fantasy.

As were planes a few hundred years ago, or space, or the internet

[Damian90]

As were planes a few hundred years ago, or space, or the internet

Still this is plain stupid. Do You know how HEAT warhead even works? By firing a HEAT warhead side ways from the main projectile You can effectively decrease penetration levels of that warhead because it will detonate at not optimal position from the armor, it can be turned about few degrees from the optimal center line etc.

[LJFHutch]

Still this is plain stupid. Do You know how HEAT warhead even works? By firing a HEAT warhead side ways from the main projectile You can effectively decrease penetration levels of that warhead because it will detonate at not optimal position from the armor, it can be turned about few degrees from the optimal center line etc.

Except I'm not talking about a heat warhead I mean those new fangled contraptions with the plastic and the explosives and the burny metal that cuts through armour, I mean put one of those inside a missile and have it launch the mine at a right angle for 10M or so, then the mine fires forward at the tank. Forward, left, forward > tank.

What on earth are those things called anyhow? I know the Americans developed them rather recently I think, and the Russians maybe too. I might even have heard about it on this forum a few months back. I may be completely missing the point of how they work though

[Damian90]

You mean EFP charge? Wrong idea, most EFP charges are not effective against tank armor. HEAT warhead is more effective.

[Magpie_Oz]

Explosively Formed Projectiles (EFP's) have been around awhile and are functionally much the same as the hollow charge weapon. An EFP uses explosives to form a plate of metal into a solid, high speed, slug an hollow charge on the other hand forms a super fast jet of molten metal.

A hollow charge will penetrate thicker armour but an EFP has better beyond armour effects.

EFP's are used sometimes in cluster bombs where their lesser penetration can be offset by attacking the top of armoured targets.

I cannot see how a dual missile system would ever "fool" an APS. It seems that the current APS's destroy an incoming warhead by firing a "blizzard" of projectiles in it's general direction rather than trying to shoot it down like the Phalanx CIWS. Two warheads one behind the other would simply both be shredded.

As for the mine type idea, well we already have mines laid by artillery which is more or less the same thing. It is also very hard to automatically target something to land in front of a target, i.e. aim it so that it will "miss".

Bear in mind too that as has been mentioned as an AT weapon gets more sophisticated it becomes more expensive and heavier which reduces the 2 main advantages of these weapons.

[LJFHutch]

Ah ok, cheers for the info guys