kevinkins Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I played last night a few battles I downloaded. They were very tough and probably impossible to win on a first go at them. First one used the technique where the set-zone is key holded with a ATGM so bam. The set up exit is also lightly mined. Its better to give the player a turn or more to deploy. Another technique used defiles to channel the attack into a force loaded with ATGM. Its best to have the superior force OR defiles - not both. The stone buildings surrounded by stone walls are fortresses that require time and firepower to overcome. To take 8-10 of these in a row down a narrow map with limited forces is suicide. A real life commander would back off and if the sector was important call in airpower. Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 While this is always going to be a question of taste, I can sympathise with you. I enjoy a HOT start from time to time as long as it's not over the top. Sometimes, the first sign of trouble that you get is a volley of fire or an explosion. Give the player an extra turn at the start and he can avoid the trap. I really enjoyed playing 'Village of Trouble' which has a very hot start! Designers should declare that their situation has a HOT start. That way, those who enjoy them can play them and those who don't, won't. Agree with you about the impossible, unrealistic 'Take those eight fortified buildings with your platoon. Oh, er, and you have 20 minutes. Good luck Lieutenant" situations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssn651 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I agree with Paper Tiger about the hot starts. In CM:SF the scaling and munition ranges are vastly different than previous titles. I honestly prefer a "safe" staging area, so that I can look at the map plan my avenues of attack and generally coordinate my actions to meet the objectives. Once I approach said village and or contested area, then, "Let loose the dogs of war." And from there lets see what happens. I can't imagine our forces huddled together in range of enemy tanks and atgm's to now figure out how they are to enter a village. Having strykers blow up and entire squads decimated as soon as I hit the start button is extremely frustrating. Todays tanks and missles are far too accurate at range to have a stryker standing still in the staging area especially in the low to no obstruction L.O.S. desert maps I've seen so far. I am sure things will get better as my Shock Force skills improve, but I would like to see hot starts mentioned. On a side note: Is there a central place where I I can find user generated scenarios? I keep checking Scenario Depot II but nothing there yet. Thanks in Advance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roter Stern Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Hot starts are fine, reinforcements spawning on top of other side's troops or right into an on going fire-fight is not ... "Allahs Fist" comes to mind here, where an entire Coy of T-72s spawns right on top of an Abrams platoon... worst 90seconds in Combat Mission history ever :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 No-no: Include two or more unconnected actions in the same scenario, leading only to massive scrolling and frustration. The campaign scenario, where you have to lead a recon platoon back to their Strykers comes to my mind. I was pretty upset that I had to manage another front later-on in this scenario! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkins Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 That's actually an interesting situation if the map is not too large. Dont thike we ever had one like that in CM1-3 where dismounts have to get back to the halftracks. How would you assign points however? Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Originally posted by Kevin Kinscherff: That's actually an interesting situation if the map is not too large.Do not misunderstand me! The scenario was great with two fronts (lost platoon and their Strykers). It was the third front (another platoon) that was too much. I propose another no-no: Do not put infantry on upper floors if not necessary. They will only be destroyed from long distances without being able to fight back! Only long range ATGM should go on building roofs IMHO! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Yeah, it's all a matter of taste. I really enjoy fighting in truly built up areas with scattered forces. Makes for a much more desperate feel. While that might make more fronts to manage, I welcome the challenge. As for ambushes from the get-go, I think that deliberately setting those up are a no-no. On the other hand, I think that giving the AI the possibility to set one up is intriguing. I tend to give the AI in my scenarios the freedom to establish turn one ambushes. Sometimes the AI chooses not to. And lastly, re: impossible missions, these are a huge no-no. Taking a few square blocks with a platoon in thirty minutes -- no way. Do the same with a company in two hours? Yeah, I can swing that. Have you guys tried my slum clearing scen? It's not a scenario so much as a setup at this point, but it's been a blast to play. I made it available in the main forum, but I guess I might have to repost. Cheers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mud Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Originally posted by The Louch: Hot starts are fine, reinforcements spawning on top of other side's troops or right into an on going fire-fight is not ... "Allahs Fist" comes to mind here, where an entire Coy of T-72s spawns right on top of an Abrams platoon... worst 90seconds in Combat Mission history ever :mad: Reminds me of the 'Sherwood Fusiliers' scenario in CMBO. If you're willing to tolerate heavy initial losses as the Germans, and playing the not-quite-prepared-for-this AI, you can charge hard enough to shatter the initial British line -- and be in position beside the road where the column of reinforcements shows up. Not pretty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I like to think of a hot start as the Friendly Force has already sprung the trap and it's mission is to survive the trap and hopefully, reverse the situation. This is a reasonable military occurrance; no matter how good your intelligence/equipment is, the enemy catches you unawares. Calling a mission 'Ambush at Dawn' without a hot start gives the human player a chance to avoid the trap because he already is already alerted to the ambush. I would imagine that a hot start really sucks big time if you're playing another human opponent but against the AI, all's fair in love and war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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