Tolrak Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Whats up with the enemy AT guns being able to see me when I can't see them. They are shaded icons so I can't fire on them unless i get into position. By the time I get into position they turn my panzers into swiss cheese. With the new patch we they can see us and fire at us but when we see them shaded we can't fire back at them? This is the op4 first snow op of the german campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 At guns and humans have spotting advantages through terrain features that vehicles do not possess. There are major LOS changes in the upcoming patch, but it is difficult at this point to know how it will affect these issues in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Spotting is controlled by a set of parameters in a file called "visibility.ini". Each type of unit is assigned a BaseObservableRange and a BaseViewRange. These variables are defined as a RADIUS in METERS. These variables are further refined by several factors: Type of unit being spotted, range of unit, intervening terrain features, position of unit (for infantry) ie., standing, crouched or prone. Once the calculations are made, a unit can either obtain LOS or it cannot based on a threshold of about three different value qualities which will also determine any degradation of shot quality. It is possible to play with these values to achieve different effects. For instance, I was able to tweak the numbers so that an infantryman could crawl right up to a tank without being spotted. Problematically, the infantryman could do this either to the FRONT or the BACK of the tank, because vehicles currently have the same quality vision 360 degrees. This is supposedly being addressed in the patch. What we lack right now is a LOS targeting line which shows us the "quality" of the shot on a potential target. Lucky for us, that feature is being added in the upcoming patch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolrak Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 before patch was lot easier to spot at guns were the numbers changed with the new patch? I mean the game is almost impossible it feels more like luck of the draw then anything else. I am playing German campaign on op 4 how am I suppose to take out those AT guns if they can see me and I can' t see them. Also those t 34's are nasty. Best I can do is to keep reloading and hope I get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Tolrak, keep in mind that gunner skill plays a HEAVY factor in determining chance to hit. There are four different crew skill levels. In many of the scenarios, especially campaign, these numbers are quite low (20's-30's). This is so your computer soldiers can build up their skill values as the game progresses. Check out the numbers for your crewmen vs. opposing AI's soldiers. You may find that his numbers are inflated to create an "artificial" challenge against the AI to make the game harder to beat. The editor is your friend. Better yet, just go in, for ****s and giggles and make all your gunners "Elite"...then replay the scenario and see how that turns out. Then make further adjustments accordingly........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 One more thing, SCOUT value plays an important role in determining spotting capabilities. So check those numbers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Another example: LEADERSHIP skill. If you want that soldier to approach that disabled tank and finish it off with an AT grenade, better give the task to a man with a Leadership of 50 or higher, or he will freak out and panic before he gets close enough to lob the thing. A squad of troops in a trench with very high leadership will firmly stand their ground against a tank charge....guys with scores in the 20's will panic and flee the area. These are just examples of how important those skill attributes are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolrak Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 I usually have either commander or the machine gunner of my tank crews with high spotting ability but not above 50 as of yet me thinx. Oh yeah my gunners have 100's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 So it must be the spotting that is bothering you. If you can extract the .SFS files with the good Dr.'s SFSExtractor, you can have a look at the visibility.ini file and see what you can do there.... Warning: It is commented in Russian.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolrak Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 Even my elite gunners can not penetrate a t-34 worth manure. At best I can take the tracks out at range. At point blank HEAT rounds I was only able disable the main gun (which is in effect disabling the tank) but no kill shots yet with Panzer IV's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Which Panzer IV are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolrak Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 op 4 first snow mission mission PZIV C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 That's what I suspected. The C series PZ IV, while having a 75mm gun is not much of a match for the T-34. Firstly, it is woefully underarmored compared to later versions of the PZIV and the 75 gun is only 24 calibers in length (75L24). Later versions of the PZIV used the 75L48 gun which could defeat the T-34 at a decent range. The PZ IVC was never intended to fight tanks, it was supposed to be used as a mobile infantry support gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolrak Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Heh. What am I to do? Other tanks suck even worse. And have no AT guns avaliable.? Only thing that comes to mind is using mass infantry to capture the enemy guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Pz4C can be a nightmare for T-34s because of its HEAT shells. Entire crew can be wiped out by hit of such munition, aim at the body instead of turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolrak Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 It has 30 meters range HEAT rounds no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolrak Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 With a game of hide and seek I got them with the PZiV C's. It's still a crap shoot. You need a lot of luck. Funny thing is didn't even need HEAT rounds. It doesn't let me take tanks to the next mission though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Originally posted by Tolrak: Heh. What am I to do? Other tanks suck even worse. And have no AT guns avaliable.? Only thing that comes to mind is using mass infantry to capture the enemy guns. That was historically how it was though, Tolrak. The Germans didn't have a tank that could really stand up to the T-34 when it was first encountered (and for a good while afterward too). They relied on their 88mm AA guns to take out the heaviest tanks until other measures could be found. Now, unfortunately the Flak 18 '88 is not present currently in the game. Hopefully that will be addressed soon. Another problem is that not all of the Infantry's anti-tank resources are available in the game, either. No magnetic AT-mines (Hafthohlladung), for instance. Until the tank sighting rules get changed (a promised feature) such missions would be suicide because tanks spot infantry too easily - even from behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Here is an excellent resource for AT devices utilized by the Wehrmacht in WWII: http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust9.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolrak Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Yeah 88 is a must. But I would like to know the reasoning behind why some of my elite units are being blocked from use in some missions also why I can't use my best Tanks or Guns in some others. Time that passes between ops are months not like they don't have enough time to get ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that was going to be fixed in the patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts