CMSF VS TOW?

[ShiftZ]

I'm gonna get murdered for sayin' this but I think both CMSF and ToW are doomed.

I just read like six pages on how stryker units suck or don't suck, just depends on who you believe.

I'm going to work on a film for the SB Pro game I got. When you see Tanks rip up into full speed and trash **** around them in mass I'll think you'll agree that the boast of eSim holds true.

Classroom simulator.

Eye candy takes you right upto the garter but eSim delivers the goods and will continue to due so because the classroms that teach basic tactics to future crews use this sim. Just think, there are a few gents that are overseas in theaters of conflict that may have demonstrated skills first formulated on this sim.

My spine shudders.

Give me modern and give me real tactics against foes that can kill me, not enemys that blow up my treads.

If I want to I'll pull out my ancient copy of Ultimatum and get it on with a buch of drunks cause thats CMSF and ToW.

I may sound rude, I may piss people off. I'm sorry. I paid my money. I paid dollars for Tow. I paid dollars for CMSF. I paid hundreds of dollars if not thousands over the last 20 years on sims and board ****.

SB Pro rules, bad infantry or not.

Like Axel Rose once said "**** You"

[ August 07, 2007, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: ShiftZ ]

[ShiftZ]

BTW I challenge Battlefront to get there respective noses in here. BF posts on almost a daily basis in the CMSF fourm. Are we chopped liver you dogs?

By Crom we paid our bucks and if need be we will raise a howling hord and storm your walls and bring you to task for hosting 1C on your web.

A solid yard of steel in your guts will losin yourn lips. Lets see you magic that away

[ August 07, 2007, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: ShiftZ ]

[FinnN]

Are you on crack? Or whatever sort of Lotus thingummy that conan was on seeing as that's your thing...

Anyway, I'm guessing that eventually I'll buy SB Pro (especially now the dollar is worth, what 2p or something?), but the setting doesn't appeal to me so it won't be tomorrow. You might as well say 'The Sims 2 rulez!' - if it isn't my sort of game I'm not going to be rushing out to buy it no matter if it's the best or worst of the genre. I'm sure the same goes for lots of other people too.

Oh, and before you wet yourself about playing a real training tool, don't forget you're missing one fundamental part of military instruction - the instructor...

One last thing, from what I can gather from the SimHQ forums, SB2 is going to be a dumbed down game rather than something like SBPro. SBPro is a spin off game (which is what it is outside the context of a course) from their military contracts, but you have to wonder how it'll hold up against actual games several years down the line.

Have fun

Finn

[Destraex]

Shiftz I also own steel beasts PE and agree its the most realistic simulator out their. Problem is nobody owns it and it requires a usb key for play. You also cannot really control an entire force effectively but rather just a platoon.

I still think the AI is dumb for some parts of Steel Beasts - i.e the helecopter AI and lack of real air power.

I agree that I want to see a European war scenario depicted in CMSF like in SBproPE but cannot see it happening.

Command and control simulation in CMSF is something I think it has over SBproPE and infantry and force control size and did i mention infantry control and simulation...... in sb infantry are very - well static and useless

[ShiftZ]

[ August 08, 2007, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: ShiftZ ]

[ShiftZ]

Yep your right FinnN, 100% on the instructor thing and I agree with Destraex about the infantry.

However having said that I must disagree on a few points.

You can of course control more then a platoon. In fact some of the missions writtin require that you stay on the map screen; but I suppose this gets back to FinnN's point about needing an instructor.

Eventually tho a person can pick up on how things work and why they work the way that they do.

Also there are defintly a lot of people playing this game. The fourms speak volums on this subject.

I bought SB Pro PE because of the realism depicted. When your the TC of any givin unit it really kicks in because someone went way out of thier way to make sure that the playable units looked real good.

Another aspect that lends itself to realism is how I can't zoom up to look at all my stuff in ant scale.

My intel comes from forward units that have actually spotted something and I have to go to those units to figure it out or use whatever is my best guess on deciding my next course of action.

And boy does this action play out fast. Just trying to line up a moving target while staying hull down and getting off a shot requires quick eye hand coordination. You have seconds to react.

Basicly all of this lends to the feel of the sim. CMSF and ToW offer nothing compared to scanning for potential threats thru the thermal sights on a Leopard2A5 doing 70KMH cross country.

Yes the infantry bother me. Someone could have done a way better job on this one but I'm not overly concerned about it. Battlefield2 offers up an exceptional first person perspective on mordern infantry so if infantry play is what I want i'll play that.

Did I mention multiplayer? Lets see, three people can play in one tank. There can be(I'm guessing here) maybe three tanks per side, sounds like good multiplayer to me. I'm pretty sure that this aspect of the game is big.

On the SB web site there is a timer counting down to the next "friday night fight" and a IP address to the Team Speak that they all use. I don't see anything like this for either CMSF or ToW. Did someone put up an un-offical web site for either of those two yet?

As I've said before I love ToW and CMSF but SB Pro is better but you have to like mordern combat.

On a lighter note the fictional character Conan never ate lotus. He ended up becoming king of his world and was held as a good leader and he didn't involve his country in wars based on speculation.

[ShiftZ]

Jeez, how many times do you have to post before you lose that "Junior Member" tag?

Uh oh. Now I've really left myself open.

[crazyman56]

Isnt this forum about Theatre of War.

Or with this post ToW and Cm:SF??

[Destraex]

"Battlefield2 offers up an exceptional first person perspective on mordern infantry"

I play the realism mod for BF2 but cannot say it has anything on reaslism for infantry compared to Armed Assault. THe vanilla bf2 off-course is a complete load of @$@% when it comes to weapons, damage and just about anything else you can think of. Only thing it has going for it is team work.

I think we all know that RTS is not a simulation but its it is good from the perspective that you get to see what happens tactically and learn without watching icons or being restricted by the FPS perspective. It just turns the icons into 3d graphics thats all. I have to say CMSF has more realistic command and control than TOW though.

LAst time I checked BTW SBproPE was only a small community that was lucky to muster 50 peeps once a week for multiplay

What upset me about spproPE was that it was too expensive for my friends to buy and too obscure - when you are talking $130 US to wait three weeks for a USB key its not exactly an impulse buy. If I wanted to play it now I have a vague idea of where the USB key is

I don't regret buying it though.... Although I must say that its more fun to roll 3D units around and control them than be FPS one shot one kill most of the time.

Besides can't you see that RTS is the way wars will be fought in future The first armed remote control combat drones are already in action. Prepare to fight from your PC

[pad152]

Another issue is campaigns, I like the style of campaigns in TOW better but, the their design is lacking, in the Allied campaign with start with infantry force in one mission and then a tank force in the next so your units don't carry over, and you lose any sense of a campaign. Also combat is so deadly your intial force is wipped out before re-inforcements arrive so there is nothing to carry forward.

Campaigns in Shock Force is once again nothing but a bunch of linked missions. I really wish BattleFront would learn to design better campaigns, this was the only weak point of the earlier combat mission games.

I don't understand why you can't start with a company or battalion, allow you to name them, then take them into battle, then win or lose, upgrade or repair your forces for the next. Aallow units to gain or lose experince based on win or lost battles. Let the campaign use either stand alone scenarios or generated through quick battle.

[Destraex]

that style of campaign was exactly what close combat has

You can rename squads, there is a strategy map ad your units gain experience. The only way you lose them is if you choose to give them back to the force pool for R&R or they die. You can repair units aswell.

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/

[ August 09, 2007, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Destraex ]

[Stoppelhopser]

Destraex: is that a mod for CC5?

I don't remember a Caen setting ...

After the recent big disappointment with TOW I again installed CC2 and played through the grand campaign and now do the same for CC4, though I don't like that part as much as the others.

The graphics may be dated, sometimes the landscape is hard to judge well and some of the pathfinding and vehicle damage seems odd (just had a Puma AC 5cm round bouncing off a Stuart's side armor at 250m, of course the Stuart hit with the first shot with it's 37mm)

but I still love the general concept. Together with CM it's my first choice.

[ShiftZ]

Ok this is the last time I'm saying anything in this fourm about SB.

Originally posted by Destraex:

"What upset me about spproPE was that it was too expensive for my friends to buy and too obscure - when you are talking $130 US to wait three weeks for a USB key its not exactly an impulse buy. If I wanted to play it now I have a vague idea of where the USB key is

I don't regret buying it though.... Although I must say that its more fun to roll 3D units around and control them than be FPS one shot one kill most of the time.

I pulled this off of the SB fourms.

QUESTION; What is the maximum no of additional licenses allowed? Are there conditions? How much does a license cost including shipping.

Trying to convince my friends of SB Pro PE.

DEVELOPER; It's $25 now, and no shipping is needed. Contact me by email for details.

QUESTION; What they can only play MP? It's a more difficult job then. But fair enough since i do want them to play online with me.

DEVELOPER; Well, technically they can play single player missions just as well while being connected to your PC over a network. The main point is, your PC will work as a license server to them, so you need to have it up and running with an established network connection.

That's why it costs only 20% of the normal price.

This is a cheap way for a group of friends or whatever to play this game.

Also, check out this site. http://www.vbs2.com/site/index.html

Ok done.

[ August 09, 2007, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: ShiftZ ]

[hobo]

I cannot get CM:SF to work so it has to be TOW by default right now. However, with that being said, if you could combine the best of the two you would have the best ever by a landslide.

- Hobo

[Destraex]

VBS2 is waaaay out of everybodies price range but probably the best of the best for infantry sims. It costs over $1000 from memory

[Destraex]

OH and yes that is the best mod ever for cc5 called gold juno sword.... its about the British breakout in Normandy.

[ShiftZ]

Originally posted by Destraex:

VBS2 is waaaay out of everybodies price range but probably the best of the best for infantry sims. It costs over $1000 from memory

Yes the purchase price is totaly insane, $1,804.00 to be exact in it's current state as it just became available on the first of this month. Obviously you get a lot of sim for that ammount though.

I'm insane, as FinnN pointed out I'm on crack so I'll probably try to convince my wife that I need this in order to continue to live on planet earth. Muwahahahaha.........ya right.

[Destraex]

u r insane, even if I purchased VBS2 who the hell would I have to play with? Just you lol.... and your insane!!

[KNac]

That's a no brainer, just wait for the next commercial game from Bohemia. Actually ArmA is more based on VBS1 than VBS2, it's just an OFP "on dope" (some argue that it's not the case after all the work done by the community on OFP), or usually called as OFP 1.5.

The next game will be based on VBS2 completly so just have a little patience, I doubt VBS2 would be of any use. If you need it so bad, I would just join the army for a tour on Iraq, damn it that's cheaper.

[ August 10, 2007, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: KNac ]

[ShiftZ]

I haven't a clue who the hell I'd play this sim with but I would probably get to know people as a result of being thrown into the same padded cell with all the other non military individuals who will actually be dumb enough to buy the game. It's just a little to much for me but what eye candy and the editor seems to function even during game play.

Obviously this is strictly for the various armies that it is intended for but just knowing that the tech is out there for something on this scale gives me hope for ToW and CM:SF.

[ShiftZ]

There's an idea, 1C buys VBS2, reverse engineers the ****, applies what they learned to ToW and "BAM" we're laughin'. It's classic russian style lmao.

[Slapaho]

ArmA is a crap game and VBS2 marketing states "VBS2™ is not designed for entertainment and is only available to the serious games market" - omg what a load of BS. The 'serious' games market want games that are made for enjopyment, replayability, FUN and value for money. For the same reasons I wouldnt buy SB I wuldnt buy this - I want a GAME, not something that feels like work.

[Destraex]

slapaho, have you played VBS2? By any chance

[FinnN]

I think they mean 'serious games' market, rather than serious 'games market' - it's just another standard term for educational software.

Have fun

Finn

[FinnN]

Originally posted by Destraex:

that style of campaign was exactly what close combat has

Looks good, but I think CC2 had by far the best connection between a campaign - the way that reinforcements, bidding for ceasefires and so on worked was perfect. From what I read at the time they ditched all that as people found it hard to grasp and so they went for a basically linear (and unloseable) campaign in CC3. CC4 (the last one I played) made things a little better but was little more than 'Risk' on steroids - looking at the one above it seems the same to me. I wonder if anyone will come up with a match between realtime and strategy with elegance and subtlety of CC2 again?

Have fun

Finn