wokelly Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I have had some problems where my tankers see the enemy tanks (icon is red when I have the tank my tank selected). I think the problem is your tank targets the enemy tanks hull automatically, so if it cant see it it wont fire. What I have found is if you aim for the turret (ALT 1) the tank will fire the round because the enemy tank is hull down, so aiming for the turret means it will fire at the turret rather then the hull which the tank has no LOS. So in conclusion, if you tank is not firing, hit Alt 1 and it should start firing at the enemy tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanss Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Cool, Could you post in the tactics forum too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9crump Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Nice theory! Have you seen it work for real?, or are you speculating. It sounds good, but it sucks when you fire a bunch of rounds trying to hit the turret. I wonder if it would be wiser to just get into a better position where hit probability would be better. It seems like they never give you enough good rounds to be wasteing on trying to hit a turret from too far away. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 More importantly, you'd think most of the tank training programs during WW2 would have included the simple instruction "if you can only see the turret, don't aim for the chassis". Of course, in this particular simulation, they opted for the Truth, namely, all tank gunners must await a personal order by the local battalion commander, before aiming at an enemy turret. Oh wait, it's a russian developer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wokelly Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 Originally posted by K9crump: Nice theory! Have you seen it work for real?, or are you speculating. It sounds good, but it sucks when you fire a bunch of rounds trying to hit the turret. I wonder if it would be wiser to just get into a better position where hit probability would be better. It seems like they never give you enough good rounds to be wasteing on trying to hit a turret from too far away. Mike I am sure I have seen it work. When my guy doesn't fire, usually when I hit Alt 1 he starts to fire. However the part about the default hull targeting is a theory that I heard. For what ever reason aiming for the turret usually does the trick for me. I could be wrong, but it seems to start getting my tank to start firing at the enemy tank. Originally posted by SirReal: More importantly, you'd think most of the tank training programs during WW2 would have included the simple instruction "if you can only see the turret, don't aim for the chassis". Of course, in this particular simulation, they opted for the Truth, namely, all tank gunners must await a personal order by the local battalion commander, before aiming at an enemy turret. Oh wait, it's a russian developer... Well no need to be critical. It would be nice for it to be fixed so the tank automatically fires if the enemy tank is hull down, but again hitting Alt 1 does the trick. Not a big deal really, though you do lose a few critical seconds realizing the tank is not going to fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanss Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Originally posted by SirReal: More importantly, you'd think most of the tank training programs during WW2 would have included the simple instruction "if you can only see the turret, don't aim for the chassis". Of course, in this particular simulation, they opted for the Truth, namely, all tank gunners must await a personal order by the local battalion commander, before aiming at an enemy turret. Oh wait, it's a russian developer... You spreading dung SirReal, nothing wrong with russians.......or german or Us or Thai. Very uncool sirReal [ April 30, 2007, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: chanss ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardRock Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Actually you're better off giving the order for turret yourself rather than auto. Turrets had the thickest armor and a smaller target with a low percent to hit. WW2 tanks rarely targeted just the turret and certainly didn't trade shots with hull down tanks. It's just poor odds and ammo supply is a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Originally posted by chanss: You spreading dung SirReal, nothing wrong with russians.......or german or Us or Thai. Very uncool sirReal I was being sarcastic. Humor. If I offended you, sorry, that wasn't my intention. Let me explain the joke to you: During WW2, the russian command structure was famed for it's inflexibility and lack of initiative at the lower levels. Thus, the joke of having the battlefield commander showing up at individual tanks and authorizing turret fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardRock Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 True enough. Russian tanks operated in companies of platoons which are half the size of western organization thus a platoon was only 2-3 tanks. A company was 10 tanks...vs 17-22 axis and allied. (Tigers usally 14) They used hand and flag signals to communicate. Individual tanks didn't act on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krull Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Originally posted by wokelly: I have had some problems where my tankers see the enemy tanks (icon is red when I have the tank my tank selected). I think the problem is your tank targets the enemy tanks hull automatically, so if it cant see it it wont fire. What I have found is if you aim for the turret (ALT 1) the tank will fire the round because the enemy tank is hull down, so aiming for the turret means it will fire at the turret rather then the hull which the tank has no LOS. So in conclusion, if you tank is not firing, hit Alt 1 and it should start firing at the enemy tank. One of the devs needs to come in here & answer this. This is the best post i have seen in relation to the problem. I should care anyways. After a 3 year abstension i'm orf to the much sunnier climes of CM & screw the $53 i consider i wasted. But it's been entertaining doing this in lieu of playing the title. Note: i'm both ambidextorous & multi-tasking enabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wokelly Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 I really dont have a problem with it. The red icon goes fills up when your unit sees an enemy tank. If the enemy is behind a hill or something, then of course the first thing it will see is the enemy tanks turret. Hence you need to aim for the turret because that may be all it actually sees and can target. It makes sense really, though yeah it would be nice for the designers to have it auto aim if the tank is hull down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seppDieter Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 im really having trouble understanding the logic behind all this, the game seems to be full of contradictions. while tanks will completely start driving on their own initiative toward the enemy to engage him without being ordered to, they don't take the initiative to shoot at the visible part of the enemy tank unless specifically ordered to by the battlegroup commander. IMO it should be the other way around, that would be logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanss Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Originally posted by SirReal: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by chanss: You spreading dung SirReal, nothing wrong with russians.......or german or Us or Thai. Very uncool sirReal I was being sarcastic. Humor. If I offended you, sorry, that wasn't my intention. Let me explain the joke to you: During WW2, the russian command structure was famed for it's inflexibility and lack of initiative at the lower levels. Thus, the joke of having the battlefield commander showing up at individual tanks and authorizing turret fire. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichenberg Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Originally posted by seppDieter: im really having trouble understanding the logic behind all this, the game seems to be full of contradictions. while tanks will completely start driving on their own initiative toward the enemy to engage him without being ordered to, they don't take the initiative to shoot at the visible part of the enemy tank unless specifically ordered to by the battlegroup commander. IMO it should be the other way around, that would be logic seppDieter, I definitely see your point and would consider it quite valid. The only way around it for me so far is to have all the time the "hold position" button enabled. I have not had a tank ignoring that command so far. With "hold position" enabled and selecting a target with "Attack" every tank did not move at all and started shooting at the target. But I have to admit that I was happy with the way CM handled that point with a separate "Target" command that did not mean that your unit started automatically all the time to move into a better position. A similar issue comes to mind when you see yourself against overwhelming odds with your tanks. I would like to offer a "Retreat" command and still have my tank firing (after being stopped for a short while) at a selected target. At the moment this is not possible in ToW. Having in the "Attack" command movement and fire orders included causes a problem for me or my kind of gameplay here. Thanks wokelly for the tip. Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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