BillyBob Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Playing the St-Lo battle. The Yanks have come up a hill on the right flank, so I send two Tigers around the blind side, to take them in their flank. But gee, one Firefly, way over the other side of the map, is somehow able to spot them through the trees and bushes and hills, despite being engaged with his own stuff on the left flank, and knocks them both out with a handful of shots. The Tigers (of course) are unable to return fire ("No clear line of sight!"). Beyond pathetic. Beyond frustration. Utter, unmitigated, BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeorite Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Having played for a little while now, your analysis 'might' be lacking rigour. Were the FFs facing the Tigers with their turret or hull observation holes? The Tigers mighthave been looking the wrong way... . When there's a lot going on it's easy to lose track of the relative status of units. There's SOME abstraction in the spotting algorithm but not so much as at first seems. Practise a few similar situations, pause and check who could feasibly see what. It isn't BS - spotting may be a tad toooo realsitic for other aspects of the game to handle. I mean, you can't leave it up to the AI to carry out broad orders like flanking moves. Your order will be followed so it had better be a prudent one! This game LOOKS like a drag-and-drop job but it is more demanding than that. It is frustrating. My 2p! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huhr Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 billy bob is right, read any book on eastern front tank warfare and to kill a tiger required some numbers and this game is bells and whistles without what we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBob Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Originally posted by Vegeorite: Having played for a little while now, your analysis 'might' be lacking rigour. Were the FFs facing the Tigers with their turret or hull observation holes? The Tigers mighthave been looking the wrong way... . When there's a lot going on it's easy to lose track of the relative status of units. There's SOME abstraction in the spotting algorithm but not so much as at first seems. Practise a few similar situations, pause and check who could feasibly see what. It isn't BS - spotting may be a tad toooo realsitic for other aspects of the game to handle. I mean, you can't leave it up to the AI to carry out broad orders like flanking moves. Your order will be followed so it had better be a prudent one! This game LOOKS like a drag-and-drop job but it is more demanding than that. It is frustrating. My 2p! As soon as the Tigers started taking fire I paused the game and had a good look at exactly what was going on. From each Tiger's turret (1st-person view) I could see only one Firefly and some infantry, all on the other side of the map. All those units were engaged with my forces on the left flank. From the Firefly I could see the Tigers' icons, but nothing of their actual hulls or turrets. Despite all this the Firefly was able to fire upon the Tigers, but when I ordered the Tigers to return fire I got the "No clear line of sight" message. Both Tigers were facing their Glacis towards the Firefly at this point. What should have happened is the Firefly should never have spotted the Tigers in the first place. Distance, otherwise engaged and multiple obstructions would have made such a feat of spotting from a buttoned tank absolutely impossible. The Tigers should have been able to complete their sneaky move and take the four Shermans on the front of the hill in the rear and despatch them in short order. It is clearly impossible to do ANYTHING in this game without the omnipotent computer AI totally trashing it with utterly bogus abilities. Like I said elsewhere, the game's a turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeorite Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 17 ldr - side on??? Rather you than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeorite Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 OK, new information. Moving Tigers create a din. Were the Tigers exposed while the FFs near/in cover??? I must say that Tigers on the 'Death's Highway' (?) battle seemed weak to me against Cromwells but then again what was the difficulty level I was running??? I dunno, you might be right but so far I have found LoS/LoF reasonable when the game's design rules are applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 billybob I have to agree with you. I don't completely understand the los at the moment, but from where I sit it is amazing what the AI can see through brush. IF you are right and the firefly somehow pulled of a shot through the hill that is not good. I wonder of LOS in this game takes into account what other units can see?? The other thing frustrating me atm is seeing my infantry get sniped by tanks, even when prone and still in brush. However I guess thats why the ratio of tanks to men was not as great as in the game lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBob Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Originally posted by Vegeorite: OK, new information. Moving Tigers create a din. Were the Tigers exposed while the FFs near/in cover??? I must say that Tigers on the 'Death's Highway' (?) battle seemed weak to me against Cromwells but then again what was the difficulty level I was running??? I dunno, you might be right but so far I have found LoS/LoF reasonable when the game's design rules are applied. Moving Tigers may create a din, but the din from the battlefield would have drowned out a battleship. Both Tigers were coming around the blind side of the hill on the far right flank, right at the edge of the map. The only visible icons were one Firefly's and about five infantry-men, all on the other side of the map, engaging my forces on the left flank. Had to be about a kilometer away. Between the two (Tigers and Firefly) were hills, trees and bushes. All I could see from any of the tanks were the others' icons. Obviously there was a LOF, otherwise the Firefly's rounds could not have physically reached the Tigers. But LOS? According to my Tiger crews they couldn't fire back due to lack of LOS, so how did the Firefly crew manage it? This is mainly what is destroying this game, the utterly bogus AI and it's overwhelming omnipotency. Add the lousy FPS, even on uber computers, and there's little left to engage the player. Sod-all actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krull Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 I'm running a pair of BFG8800GTXs n SLI on a BFG SLI MoBo using 2 gig of Nvidia SLI memory modules booming out of a Dell '30HD-CP. And still this title staggers. I turned off one of my cores as advised yet the moment the action starts to get a little intense the game starts to stagger. We can add crap coding to the list of offences. Makes for a damn expensive coaster this lemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts