Another Mod possibility:Finns + MOUT Easter egg

[John Kettler]

Modern Finns, anyone? Weapons are basically AK-47s, but since rifle grenades aren't modeled, we'd have to fake it by fitting some in the squad with BG-15 underweapon grenade launchers. Wouldn't be PC at all, but it might be interesting to, er, resume the Continuation War as a hypothetical. Primary vid shows attack through the forest, assault on a trench line, house clearing in a village, plus consolidation of the defense as night begins to fall.

The Easter egg after the primary credits consists of some attention getting demos of 7.62 x 39(?) fire against everything from a 20 cm thick tree to cinder block, sandbags and even steel.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Secondbrooks]

i tried this. No modding, but trying out different ways to get as accurate representation of platoons, companies and batallions as possible.

First. No need to worry about 'rifle launched Grenade'. Only rifle that has that abilty is newest one. They have been produced only small amount and are given to constript training and peace keepers. Some cynical ones are saying that for possible war old rifles are saved and these new ones are ment to be broken in peace time and during war they task is to become as spare parts... However this is very cynical view.

Problems are in organisation. At company level both US and Syria are both way too heavy. Platoon's at both sides are different than finns, US being too heavy (well just MG-teams are too much) and Syria not having platoon leader's team, but usually their platoons are as light and similarry armed as finns have. Finnish should have seperate AT-team in each platoon (points goes to Syria). Ability not to split squads is bad when it comes to Syria, but i havent' much used this in CMSF (would douple the amount of micromanagement needed!).

Syrias AT-weaponry is close to finns, RPG-29 = Apilas, RPG-7 = M72 LAV, SPG-9 = 95mm recoiless gun. But finns goes the "western" way and uses disposable launchers and there usually would be mix of Apilas and M72 in platoon.

Some year 1995 module would be most accurate when it comes to armored equipment... Syrian equipment ofcourse.

Overall i'm satified with results what i can gain... But i don't need re-textured units for it, which to my understandment is all CMSF modder can do

EDIT: That training-video brings few memories, i have bad habit of watch it thru still.

[ April 02, 2008, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Secondbrooks ]

[SSgt Viljuri]

While pondering things like these, it would be advisable to remember that more than half of the units currently "in the books" are theoretical, mostly because reservists' skills are lacking (fitness is the least of worries) and equipment assigned would not serve any purpose on a modern battlefield.

Even a full-scale war (of annihilation) against the A2yellow type enemy would not mean full mobilization. Any current or future scenario involving Finnish participation should be modeled with the up-to-date and appropriate gear and let the old thinking derived from the Second World War experiences lay to a rest.

[ April 02, 2008, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: SSgt Viljuri ]

[Secondbrooks]

True, but then again most of poorly trained and equiped units are obsolent in CMSF scale as they take care of holding buildings and structures which mostly will get either bombed or tried to be destoyed by small special force-units. At least at start of war.

Type of attack most likely would be strategical strike to seize Helsinki Capital, with marines and airassaultunits direct hit to Helsinki and mechaniced units rolling from Karelia towards Capital (in Russian's case).

In this case units we would talk about in CMSF would be jaegerbrigade and brigade -05s + mechaniced combatunit and territorial batallions (which atleast in Helsinki's case aren't 2nd line troops but 1st line).

Level of traning with these units would be dependant of how early Finland would realise it's going to get attacked. Currently i think only 'Readinessbrigades' (brigade -05) have sufficent level of traning to start acting immediatly after mobilization. Rest would require week or two to fullfil lacks in equipment and traning... This however bases on my non-classified understandment.

[John Kettler]

SSgt Viljuri and Secondbrooks,

Good to hear from the Finns! Thanks for taking my mod suggestion in the spirit it was meant, even though it concerns your homeland. I definitely wouldn't want to see anything like that happen, but there are certainly enough hotheads next door to make it a possibility. The overlap in airpower doesn't hurt, either, allowing for potential tacair strikes on both sides. Not sure how I'd model the Finnish superdetailed ground mapping, though. Maybe a TRP every 100 meters? Come to think of it, I really like that idea!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Secondbrooks]

TRP? Are you meaning target reference points which doesn't exist yet.

Problem with forest is quite clear, 3 trees per tile would be neseccary when trying to model terrain properly. Luckly we can disable tree's foilage

Basically only problems i've faced when creating terrain have been lack of walkable marsh, swamp and Syrian buildings, but i'm not very picky. But 1x1.5 kilometer map (50% forest and 50% wheatfield) caused very long loading times atleast in my slightly below average computer, but usually i tend to over-use trenches serving as ditches.

Not sure what are you after with overlap in airforces? Can Syria even have airstikes? Anyways those should have restricted from finns, because our F-18 Hornets, notice lack of '/A' letters, doesn't have air-to-ground capability currently. Well they could do cannonruns i quess

[John Kettler]

Secondbrooks,

Oops on the TRPs! Call it CMx1 bleedthrough, but since they're part and parcel of pretty much every nation's fire procedure, I have no idea why they weren't in from the beginning in CMSF.

Not enough trees and a processor hit? No wonder you want to switch off the foliage display.

Regarding the Finnish Air Force, you would appear to be a bit behind the power curve. Wiki says the missing features are being put back in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Air_Force

Besides, your Hawk trainers make very nice light attack aircraft for daytime strikes, carrying rockets and bombs in addition to cannon. Syria isn't allowed airstrikes in vanilla CMSF, but in Red on Red, both sides may employ tacair and helicopter strikes. The L-29 Delphin is a great Hawk substitute. That's why I proposed the idea in the first place, knowing that the Valmet is basically a reworked AK-47, which in CMSF terms means the Finns can play as Red. I think a MiG-29/a pair would be a reasonable substitute for the F-18 the Flygvapnet flies, especially if any attention at all is devoted to properly presenting the ordnance array the thing can carry, which is extensive and includes a slew of guided weapons for ground attack.

http://www.vectorsite.net/avmig29.html

http://www.aeronautics.ru/ruaf7.htm

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/MiG-29-2.htm

Picture of some air-to-surface armament here.

http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=255&linkid=1600

Regards,

John Kettler

[ April 04, 2008, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Secondbrooks]

Air-to-ground capability is in planning (and partially reached), but i think this capability will be complitely reached during 2010-2020, this is official story atleast. But i'm not very intrested on Airforces so might be that i'm dead wrong. But if there is capability but not weapons, then it would be possible that NATO could lend these to us if it's not tied to fighting and supplying arms to it's members in other fronts.

Your right with Hawks, i forgot them. Question is that does opponent reach air-superiority or does it need to divine it's forces to other sectors as well. I'm not sure does Russia have already AA-missiles which covers southern Finland complitely from Saint Petersburg... If it does... Hmm...

Your right with TRPs, overall Syria is way too slow with it's indirect fire. Good FO and good 120mm mortar crew seems to be able to deliver grenades into area of effect in 6-7 minutes. Which atleast info i'm having is way too slow on current standarts.

I'm not sure what your after with that tree-comment, but trees when foilage disabled aren't very big strain to CPU (even in 90% forest 10% open maps), this is impression i'm having. I would think that lots of tall buildings and large map is worst combination to computer in CMSF. Trenches too seems to cause loading time to increase.