The wounded and the dead

[Scipio]

I brought up this question in another thread, maybe it has deserved to be discussed again...

Originally posted by Scipio:

...

I wonder how wounded/dead soldiers are represented in CM:SF - since each soldier is simulated now and not just represented as a number in abstraced group of soldiers.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

There was a thread about wounded/dead a long time ago that is pretty much still accurate. Minor wounded continue to stay with the unit, major wounded/dead are dropped out. There is no detailed treatment of casualties in CM:SF as this would require almost a sim within a sim. The US units are penalized by delays when they suffer a casualty. At least when they are moving. This abstractly simulates the tactical downside of caring about each and every guy in the unit.

Steve

What does this mean - how will it look? Sounds to me like wounded soldiers simply disapear into nothing, while the rest of the squad gets a simple speed penalty.

There are many situations on the battlefield where a wounded soldier keeps parts of a squad busy for some time - at least the medic will stop and try to give first aid. Just to mention one point.

There is so much noise about the damage models on AFV - why do infantrie casualties receive so few attention?

[Homo ferricus]

well, if you didn't notice in the new urban warfare pics that just came out, theres a screenie of a soldier treating a wounded one, so I'm guessing that we will just see another squad member run up, apply first aid, and then run back to the squad (the casualty disappearing) resulting in a waste of time.

[MikeyD]

" Sounds to me like wounded soldiers simply disapear into nothing"

That's sorta what I've been expecting to see in the game.

An alternative - and its not out of the question - would be to keep the battlefield strewn with prone figures that perhaps disappear if the opponent manages to 'capture' him - occupy the area. Then the prone figure would have a minor 'P.O.W.' point value (depending on whether he's dead or wounded when captured). Talk about slowing down a unit, they'd be forced to decide whether to protect him or leave him behind and risk him being captured!

Another question i have is what's going to happen when the game's done and we return to the map. In CMx1 we can click on the dead units to check their kills. Will the 'disappeared' units return so we can do a proper after-action analysis?

[track]

Not to mention that the wounded squad members may need rescuing from ****ty places that put wannabe medics in danger of being hit themselves.

It is a tactical aspect as well as just matter of delay. Very few western armies are ready to leave wounded lie where they fall without trying to save them first if at all possible.

[track]

should have spelled "lay" not "lie"

[Scipio]

I guess it is indeed not unrealistic that a squad will try to hold the position and save the wounded before it continues to advance, maybe even stop to advance completly...

[MikeyD]

I remember a TV news interview with an Army squad leader just before Gulf War I (remember, most of these guys were green as grass back then). He said that he was told to expect 20%+ casualties in his unit (or was that 40%?) during the opening assault. When a man went down he was expected to quickly attend to him but leave him for follow-on units as he pressed his assault forward. If CMSF is modeling a big-push rolling front attack those rules may apply here too. In an Iraq patrol situation today nobody in his right mind would leave a wounded where he was.

[ January 25, 2007, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]