Not exactly on point for CMSF, but need verification

[Beastttt]

Bigduke

what I was seeking an answer to was

with the K-5 ERA a first shot kill would be very slim during that period(before dual charge and top attack missles)

also the flight path might be blocked by the TOW from the lone Bradley to use it's 25mm autocannon

how close would a 155 HE round need to explode to disable or detonate the ERA

as for the shermans it was out flank the panther

but back then shermans outnumbered panthers 10 to 1

Originally posted by Bigduke6:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

I dread to think what it would sound and feel like inside as your ERA was being scrubbed off! Enough to make you bail probably.

Alternatively, it might alert the T-72 crew of the need to swat the Bradley.

now my question would be

Could a Bradley fire it's 25mm chain gun to scrub off the ERA so it's TOW could have a chance at at a penatration or teamworked with an M1 and it's 105 or 120mm gun. I'm figuring that the 25 is going to have to go full auto for 3 to 5 seconds to do a good scrub job

Well, that's a boffo idea as long as

(1) The T-72 doesn't decide to shoot back at the Bradley

(2) The there are more Bradleys and M1s, than T-72s

(3) The people inside the T-72s are too dumb to figure out teamwork themselves.

(4) The M1 or Bradley preparing to shoot through the hole in the reactive armor is capable of doing it, when the T-72 and its friends are going to be rather irritated at the scrub tactic.

In other words, this is the Cold War equivalent of Sherman crews being told that the way to deal with a Panther is to get close and bounce a round off the bottom of the mantlet. It might sound like a good idea to the planners, but to the crewmen told to jump through a dumb hoop to defeat an enemy vehicle a good deal better armored than the planners expected, the tactic is little short of a death sentence.

On whether K-5 is fieldable or not, maybe fytinghellfish is right, and the stuff is just too expensive for the poor cash-strapped Russians.

Of course, with oil at 60 dollars a barrel, natural gas at 230 dollars per 1,000 cubic meters, nickel at record prices, and a KGB guy in the Kremlin, you might just think the Russian army might have other reasons besides lack of cash or will to explain why not much of the tank fleet is equipped with the stuff.

Like:

- Maybe it's in warehouses somewhere and if the balloon goes up they just plan to bolt it on. Otherwise, why leave it on a tank where it can get beat up in training or maybe a chunk of it get sent to the CIA?

- The next generation tank is better armored than T-80 + K5, and so why bother re-equipping their entire fleet with armor that's soon going to be obsolete.

- Reactive armor is chemicals and plastics, it is not super-high tech, and arguably manufacturing a lot quickly is a lot easier than (say) increasing production of aircraft or tanks. So the Russians figure if they need a lot of it, they can make it up easily enough. </font>

[flamingknives]

From what I understand of Kontakt-5, the outer plate is substantial enough that 155mm fragments would be unlikely to penetrate, much less initiate the fill.

[Beastttt]

was thinking shock wave not fragments

so I would figure 10m

Originally posted by flamingknives:

From what I understand of Kontakt-5, the outer plate is substantial enough that 155mm fragments would be unlikely to penetrate, much less initiate the fill.

[flamingknives]

Fragments are more of a threat than blast. More concentrated energy and all that.

A direct hit would do it, but a near burst would have to be pretty close. Much closer than 10m.

Worth noting that a direct hit would probably scrub any external plates off pretty good, but would not initiate the explosive fill without hitting them with big, chunky fragments

[Bigduke6]

Originally posted by Beastttt:

Bigduke

what I was seeking an answer to was

with the K-5 ERA a first shot kill would be very slim during that period(before dual charge and top attack missles)

also the flight path might be blocked by the TOW from the lone Bradley to use it's 25mm autocannon

how close would a 155 HE round need to explode to disable or detonate the ERA

as for the shermans it was out flank the panther

but back then shermans outnumbered panthers 10 to 1

Ah. I see, I thought you were recommending use of the chain gun to degrade the reactive armor, so an AP weapon could shoot through the degraded hole.

[jjhouston]

Originally posted by Beastttt:

also the flight path might be blocked by the TOW from the lone Bradley to use it's 25mm autocannon

If a Bradley tries to fire its 25mm while it is tracking a missile, the missile will abort.

A Bradley most likely would not risk firing its 25mm at a tank if it could engage with a missile. The missile has a range of almost 4 kilometers, which provides for a bit of stand-off when engaging a tank. Also the missile can be fired from a turret-down position as the erected launcher and the sight aperature are both above the roof of the turret. In order to engage with the 25mm, the Bradley would need to assume a hull-down position, thus exposing the turret and substantially increasing its target signature.

[ July 01, 2007, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: jjhouston ]