Building Entry Points and Grenades

[Cpl Steiner]

As we have already been told, buildings will now have proper entry points such as windows and doors. I wonder, will this mean that grenades will take account of the entry points. In other words, if a grenade is off target, will it bounce of the wall rather than go through the window?

[flamingknives]

Perhaps you could have an experience-related chance of soldiers blowing themselves up every time they use a grenade. Regulars or better would hardly ever do it, but conscripts just might...

[Peter Cairns]

Of real importance will be "Gable Ends" as in many prefab buildings the ends have few if any openings.

This means that you can in effect group at the end of the building with the occupants unable to either see or engage you.

The whole subject of building design will be crucial.

Another example is the number of buildings in rural settings in the Middle East, which have a courtyard design, with the buildings built in to a high wall with very few windows, most of which are internal.

This structure gives good protection (particularly against wind and blown sand) but doesn't give a defender many opportunities to fire out.

The ability to make wholes in walls either with explosives or simply knocking out bricks will be an issue,

should it be allowed, yes but for defenders only pre game, like digging in, or allowed in game by engineers or after a delay.

Should such improvisied fireing appetures be abstract or actually specific like a form of deformed terrain.

Peter.

[Peter Cairns]

Another issue is how vulnerable and effective people are depending on the number of windows.

If a room with a squad (8mx8m), might have four windows facing out or only one.

Would the firepower of the defender be reduced because they couldn't all fire out the window at the same time, or would the lack of "eyes" effect there observation.

Equally would people firing in to the buiding be more likely to hit as they would have fewer windows to split their fire over, and would their be a limit to casualties because their could only be a few at the sole window.

All interesting stuff.

Peter.

[cassh]

Which is a very common occurrence if the amount of Chorley training grenades that used to miss the mark and hit an exterior wall is any guide.

I don't think that you'd throw a live one in such a blasé fashion given the choice, but it is clear some will indeed miss the target window, door or aperture.

Mined Entry Points?

Given we'll have known entry points on the building model - does that mean a defender can mine them? This is common practice in DIBUA (defence in built-up areas). It would be nice to be able to defend a building as one would in reality.

Fortified Buildings?

Also, will basic engineering operations such as barricading doors, windows and stairs, covering stairs with corrugated iron, deploying razor wire, removing floor planking at key locations, reinforcing and sandbagging be modelled in some way?

If buildings could be 'fortified' with differing levels of protection for the defender, and mobility restrictions for the attacker then I think we would have a better model of the potential scenarios faced in a MOUT/FIBUA battle.

Apertures & Firing Arcs?

Just a thought - how does the engine handle firing angles from 1:1 troops with x amount of windows/loop holes. In reality more experienced soldiers only fire from deep within the interior of a room along a much narrower firing arc to minimise detection and exposure - but the complexity of LOS/LOF here will be enormous will it not?

MOUT/FIBUA Tactics & Training Levels

How does BFC plan to reflect differing levels or training and experience in MOUT/FIBUA combat?

Admittedly using Syria vs. US forces may not reach the zenith of MOUT/FIBUA tactics, but given the blue-on-blue option, surely some reflection of higher technique and nuance is required.

Technique and practice of method drive FIBUA in a medium or high intensity conflict more than any other environment.

It seems a unit well trained and versed in MOUT/FIBUA understands the battle space better and knows how to exploit it, in both attack and defence. Inexperienced units will not attack or defend in anything like the same way as well-trained units.

My question is will experienced troops be able to do things like mouse-holing, using breaching charges, grappling irons, scaling ladders, fortify buildings when setting up etc where regular troops cannot (can't do what you don't know).

If a 'crack' team takes down a room will their chance of killing an enemy unit be immeasurably higher than say a regular unit doing the same task? Highly trained units are synchronised and slick, and therefore are very effective. This force multiplier is higher than may normally be given credit, but training, organisation and cohesion are the things that make one prevail in an urban battle.

I just hope that as much as possible building defence/assault options are modelled in a non-abstract fashion so we can take the finer decisions as to how that battle is fought.

Game Engine & Wishes

I would love to be able to orchestrate assaults with details such as synchronised fires with grenade posting/projectile attacks on multiple points, SF machine-gun opening up on the lines of withdrawal and roof entry using a breaching charges with follow up assault moving in. Whether this is possible remains to be seen, but it is not that far away from CMX1 ability so I remain optimistically hopeful that BFC will raise the bar once more.

Not that far fetched when you think about it - you'd have to add a coordinated actions/timing option, "use grenade" firing option for infantry units, and arm MOUT TOE units with breaching charges and we have a party.

[lucero1148]

What about the effects of .50 cal mg fire. From what I understand concentrated fire is pretty devasting to anyone inside an ordinary house.

[Cpl Steiner]

As terrain is going to be deformable as well, perhaps we should see a .50 cal mg gradually reduce a wall to rubble. I've seen film of an mg knocking a brick wall down with sustained fire, so I should imagine it's possible.

If even half of these effects are implemented in the game, it will be amazing.

[Cpl Steiner]

I would love to be able to orchestrate assaults with details such as synchronised fires with grenade posting/projectile attacks on multiple points, SF machine-gun opening up on the lines of withdrawal and roof entry using a breaching charges with follow up assault moving in. Whether this is possible remains to be seen, but it is not that far away from CMX1 ability so I remain optimistically hopeful that BFC will raise the bar once more.

I just remembered, the original "Rainbow 6" game allowed you to set waypoints by door entrances that told a team to grenade a room before entering it. This feature would be very useful considering that entrance points are now so much more important than in CMx1.