Afraid to buy game because demo is junk.

[Wobble]

All i have played.. is the demo, and aside from the graphics.. which are very overstressing considering their quality.. the game just seems to be utter junk to me..

I have concerns about the following... as i do not know how the full version plays.. i can only assume these problems are also in the full game.

1: the driver... is an absolute idiot.. you give him a simple task.. to go somewhere... and he just swerves back and forth.. IF he even goes anywhere... and since you cant drive from the gunner's position.. often your ready to fire and the dumb goddamn driver decides on his own.. its time to spin the tank.. or go for a drive or some crap.. so you have to switch to drivers.. set the brake and go back to gunner before the driver starts acting up again... this and this alone is enough to ruin the game... but its only the start.

2: i can zoom the gunner's site on the practice mission where you shoot random junk.. but on the mission where you have to kill the leopard.. its stuck zoomed all the way in.. so viewing.. aiming etc.. is almost impossable.. especially if the tank is moving ANY.

3: the same mission.. where you start and have to kill the leopard.. it starts you off and immediatly you are fired upon THROUGH the trees from the tank you cannot even hope to see as there is an entire grove of trees between you..

a: starting the mission where you are immediatly in the enemy's sights is stupid

b: being shot through a frigging forest when you are totally out of the line of sight from the enemy is stupid.

4: the aiming system is about as awkward as a person could make it... you have to mash down the mouse button and hold it to move the turret... maybe this can be changed.. but no other game i have played has such a goofy way of doing it.

I like this game for the eye candy.. and I guess considering its for the T72 and the only real tank game out aside from the antiquated steel beasts pixel barf.. i cant be too harsh... but if there are no workarounds for these problems there isnt the slightest chance i will ever purchase this game.

ESPECIALLY THE AI DRIVING!!!! it is absolutle JUNK

[Freya]

Wobble, to answer your questions:

1. It is possible to control the driver from the gunner position via keys. You can tell him to move forward, turn left or right or to stop. Usually this works pretty well for me.

2. In the campaign, you have to content with malfuctioning equipment on default, but I think you can change that in the realism setting, so that you will always have everything working perfectly.

3. In the full game, there doesn't seems to be any such missions as the Leo mission in the demo.

4. I guess you just have to live with that. IMO it's not a showstopper.

[gunnersman]

I never played the demo and I have the full game. Yes, the driver AI leaves ALOT to be desired, but that is easily overcome by driving the tank yourself from the driver's seat OR using the driver command keys from the gunner or TC position. If you use driver command keys the driver is not as...shall we say... epileptic? It is much easier to use.

The whole line of sight thing is a bit annoying as well but its not that bad. There really are hardly any situations in the game where that presents itself, with the exception of the foliage. But you can remove that.

As I said in another post, I think its pretty good for a game that came from a small indy developer. Plus...ITS THE T72!

Id really love it if they made a WW2 version. It would be perfect.

[Pvt.X]

The demo sucks, that's true.

But when you play the full game, you have a completely other game feeling.

And if my Coop Maps will work probably it will just make more fun...

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by gunnersman:

... the driver AI ... is easily overcome by driving the tank yourself...

But what about other units?

If the AI can't drive my vehicle (effectively) it shouldn't be able to rive any other vehicle in the game either! "Move to waypoint" must be one of the single most common commands in the game, and the AI can't handle it! :mad:

And if, as I assume, I am to control (command) more than one vehicle at a time, then a crappy AI makes matters a lot worse...

As I said in another post, I think its pretty good for a game that came from a small indy developer.

I agree that it seems pretty good. The problem (for me) is that the competition from another small developer is so much better!

Although this game have many features I really appreciate...

- The ability to dig entrenchments during the game.

- The vehicles available. (Love those more or less vintage tanks!)

- The fairly accurate gunnery models. (Exactly how accurate I don't know.)

... there are some features that put me off and/or doesn't get any attention within the demo.

- Crappy AI. Driving discussed above, and when I, as the TC, man the HMG (F8) I really don't want the AI gunner to mess up my aim and LOS by attacking targets or rotating the turret on his own! (Happens when trying to attack the helicopter in the demo.)

- Controlling multiple units. In the map view I see there are a couple of buttons for formations and such, but I don't get to use them in the demo...

- Plain view marking of targets and waypoints. Takes a deep cut in realism, doesn't it? (It's helpful though, and could optionally be turned on/off.)

- Strange mix of decisions made for the graphics engine, or at least that's what it looks like on my hardware.

Nice but slowdowns: Swaying grass, natural clouds, hi-res textures.

Ugly and fast: Black shadows, ugly tree lines.

I, personally, still think that the 5 y.o. SB seems to be a better sim, and it's successor SB Pro PE, that seems to be released this autumn, will be an even better simulator (while not a game) but cost about 100$ more than BoF. (Not aimed at the mass market at all!)

(I could, of course, opt to buy them all...)

Cheers

Olle

[Gato]

Originally posted by Olle Petersson:

I, personally, still think that the 5 y.o. SB seems to be a better sim, and it's successor SB Pro PE, that seems to be released this autumn, will be an even better simulator (while not a game) but cost about 100$ more than BoF. (Not aimed at the mass market at all!)

...agreed, and it not only seems to be, it is

[gunnersman]

I agree that it seems pretty good. The problem (for me) is that the competition from another small developer is so much better!

Like who? "Steele Beasts" is as close as it gets. And they dont model penetration like BoF does. SB does model interiors, and accurate mechanics of the M1A2 and the Leopard 2 as well as ballistics. But their emphasis is more on AFV tactics. The SB battlefield is totaly different than BoF and is optimized for that. You also dont get smoke and dust that obscure vision in SB like you do in BoF.

Although this game have many features I really appreciate...

- The ability to dig entrenchments during the game.

- The vehicles available. (Love those more or less vintage tanks!)

- The fairly accurate gunnery models. (Exactly how accurate I don't know.)

... there are some features that put me off and/or doesn't get any attention within the demo.....

...when I, as the TC, man the HMG (F8) I really don't want the AI gunner to mess up my aim and LOS by attacking targets or rotating the turret on his own! (Happens when trying to attack the helicopter in the demo.)

You can alleviate the AI gunner problem by hitting "2" key. That will tell your AI gunner to hold fire.

Plain view marking of targets and waypoints. Takes a deep cut in realism, doesn't it? (It's helpful though, and could optionally be turned on/off.)

It can be turned off. I think it is "T".

Strange mix of decisions made for the graphics engine, or at least that's what it looks like on my hardware.

Nice but slowdowns: Swaying grass, natural clouds, hi-res textures....

All can be adjusted to your liking.

Ugly and fast: Black shadows, ugly tree lines.

The cloud shadows or other shadows? In any case I think they are well done. Thats opinion. Treelines need work, yes. I think that would be cpu intensive.

I, personally, still think that the 5 y.o. SB seems to be a better sim, and it's successor SB Pro PE, that seems to be released this autumn, will be an even better simulator (while not a game) but cost about 100$ more than BoF. (Not aimed at the mass market at all!)

I agree.

It seems to me you are just looking for things to complain about...and thats ok.

You dont have to like it.

To each his own.

[ September 06, 2005, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: gunnersman ]

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by gunnersman:

"Steele Beasts" ... But their emphasis is more on AFV tactics. The SB battlefield is totaly different than BoF and is optimized for that.

So what, more precisely, is the BoF battlefield? And why shouldn't AFV tactics be an issue when AFVs are exactly what you, as the player, use in BoF?

(For SB the battlefield is not urban, but just about anything else, in my experience.)

Originally posted by gunnersman:

You also dont get smoke and dust that obscure vision in SB like you do in BoF.

I can agree with that. To some extent BoF is more realistic in that aspect.

Originally posted by gunnersman:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Strange mix of decisions made for the graphics engine, ...

All can be adjusted to your liking.</font>