Allocation of conquered territories.

[Edwin P.]

Returning to the subject of Allocating Conquered Territories:

I would like to see SC2 have a diplomacy map showing all the countries and territories in the game. (AKA the current Declare War Map)

Selecting a territory or country would show, at the bottom of the screen;

1. Name of Territory

2. Current Status - ie Neutral, Conquered, Leaning Allied, Leaning Axis

3. A short paragraph on the history of the territory that gives some background on the history of that territory and hints as to the effect of allocating that territory to another nation or the general policy of that major power.

And for real flavor:

4. In the right side of the information box a portrait of that country's leader - Franco, El Duce, Stalin obtained from photos in the public domain, or in the case of Gibraltar a picture of the Rock.

Examples:

Gibraltar

Acquired from Spain by the UK in the Treaty of Urecht in 17XX after Spain's defeat by the British. Every Spanish government since then has demanded its return while every British government as protrayed Gibraltar as a part of the UK.

(A hint that relations with Spain would improve if Gibraltar was given to them and that it would be hard for the UK to transfer this territory).

Syria

This former province of Turkey was acquired by the French after Turkey's defeat in WWI.

(A hint that Turkey would be pleased to receive this territory).

Egypt

This nominally independent country was recently a colony of Great Britain and before that a province of the Ottoman Empire. The government of Italy views Egypt as the key to the restablishment of the Roman Empire in Africa.

(A hint that both Italy and Turkey are interested in Egypt and would be negatively influenced if the other coutry was given this territory).

Italy

Jersey John: Mussolini wanted southern France, Swizerland, Tunisia, Yugosalvia and Greece. That was his Europe proper idea from the 1920s. He also wanted an African Empire that would have incluced Egypt (as a protectorate) and the Sudan.

For the Game I would rephrase this and say:

"The Government of Mussolini aims to restore Italy to the glory of the Roman Empire by extending its control to Southern France, Switzerland, Yugoslaiva, Greece, and North Africa."

(A hint as to the goals of the Italian Government and what territorial transfers would influence and anger them)

USSR

The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics believes that war with the Capitalist governments of Western Europe is inevitiable on the path towards the defeat of Captialism by the worker class and the entry of these countries into the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

(A hint that Russia aims to rule the world and will not trade any territory it acquires to another nation)

Sweden

The Swedish government of Prime Minister Per Albin Hanssonhas has issued a declaration of neutrality and increased the size of Swedish self defense forces to deter an invasion.

(A hint that it would be hard to inflence Sweden with diplomatic overtures or territory)

Naturally, I would nominate JerseyJohn to write these historical notes, if the Designer decided to incorporate this feature into the game.

[ September 18, 2004, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Roosevelt45(the 2nd)]

Another excellent idea Edwin!

I don't know who, but someone suggested that countries who were leaning allied, should be colored green on the map.

The more they lean towards the allies the greener it get's.

This would work the same for the axis-leaning countries but I forgot the colour (proobably grey or black or sth)

Hubert replied to this post saying he liked the idea very much.

I'm also very excited about the historical anekdotes, but I doubt it will be in the game.

And yes, Jersey John would be perfect for this .

[Edwin P.]

I'm also very excited about the historical anekdotes, but I doubt it will be in the game.

Ah, ye of little faith. The historical notes for each territory would probably be the simplest for HC to add to the game; especially if JerseyJohn wrote them.

Any comments HC? JerseyJohn?

[JerseyJohn]

Edwin, Roosevelt,

I'm flattered and want to thank both of you. Sure, I'd be glad to write them, though I think the ones Edwin put up are perfect!

Also I agree with Edwin that the hint captions sound like they'd be fairly easy additions for Hubert if he wanted to incorporate them.

If we were going to include regions within existing countries, such as Ukrania and Belorussia, it would go off into a programing aspect Hubert hasn't commented on to my knowledge but from an historical perspective that would be a tremendous amount of fun. Naturally there are other regions of other countries, such as sections of Yugoslavia that not only would be valid for these purposes but were actually divied up that way historically!

So, the whole thing is up to Mr. Cater*.

-- *I'm supremely confident that Hubert would do a great job writing them himself if that was his preference.

[Roosevelt45(the 2nd)]

yeah, but Yugoslavia is already pretty small, so if you start dividing up those countries, you might as well start splitting Belgium up too.

Yup,guess it is up to Hubert now.

[JerseyJohn]

Yes, I stopped short of mentioning Belgium!

In 1918, Germany wanted Eastern Belgium and part of Northern France in addition to the Brest-Litovsk conquests and the return of their lost colonies. The Brits and French were willing agree to all except Eastern Belgium and Norther France. The Germans were exceedingly stupid in those demands; they'd have been the most powerful nation on earth and they threw it away.

Yugoslavia would divide into three zones, hypothetically.

Okay, we aren't going to get consessions like that and probably they wouldn't mean anything -- and it could go on indefinitely with adding areas like the Basque in Iberia.

So let's say what we're looking for is Ukrania, Belorussia and The Baltic States (they'd be three countries, of course) and the area around and including Leningrad, which would go to Finland. Historically Finland expressed no desires for Soviet territory, it only wanted restoration of it's own territory and the end of Soviet menacing. But I think it's reasonable to assume it would have recieved Leningrad and the surrounding area if it had fallen.

Another interesting concept would be that Finnish, Hungarian and Rumanian troops would only be able to fight or garrison on the eastern side of the map. Bulgarians should propbably remain in the Balkans and Turkey, if it's invaded. As usual, that's going a bit far in game terms and probably not overly important.

[Edwin P.]

Another interesting concept would be that Finnish, Hungarian and Rumanian troops would only be able to fight or garrison on the eastern side of the map. Bulgarians should propbably remain in the Balkans and Turkey, if it's invaded. As usual, that's going a bit far in game terms and probably not overly important

I would also add for the 3 neutrals with the largest armies: Turkish Troops can only move within X (10) tiles of Turkish Territory, Swedish troops are limited to within X (10) tiles of Swedish territory, Spanish troops are limited to within (10) tiles of Spanish territory.

[ September 19, 2004, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[JerseyJohn]

Edwin

Excellent idea. I agree.

Maybe taking the whole thing together would be more important and useful in game terms than it at first appeared.

[Edwin P.]

Agreed, especially if giving either of the major neutrals (Spain and Turkey) territory expanded the area in which their units counld be deployed.