The mechanics of Sealion

[The Great Santini]

I have been unable to find a discussion of the mechanics of Sealion by searching the forum. I have a few questions. (1) If the Allied player has left the majority of his units in Egypt is it possible to do a snap Sealion after France is conquered? Or must Egypt be attacked first? (2) Are certain tech advances necessary before Sealion? (3) Is a first invasion turn capture of London essential for a successful invasion? If so, how is this accomplished? (4) Does the Axis player need the Bismarck and Tirpitz in his invasion fleet for sea cover before launching the attack? And should the Axis player expect the annihilation of his navy even in a successful Sealion? (5) How does the new patch complicate the invasion of and defense of England(air spotting, transport damage, cheaper paratroopers,etc.)?

[Liam]

My first suggestion is this, never do Sea Lion unless you just want a quick end to the game and are bored. If playing a better player and you wish to outplay him, by all means.

1st rule by my game is this, where is the Royal Navy! How many turns does it take for him to react, and how good do you feel that your opponent is scouting.

Air is neccessary, softens up London and the surrounding corps. You must learn from experience or Hotseat. Hotseat is highly valuable learning tool. London and Manchester are the keys to England. Capture both and destroy everything in your Path. If the Royal Navy is present and your opponent is a good player, you're toast if he has any amount of Ground Forces in England. If he's scouted your invasion he'll let you fall into a trap and crush you like a bug. You'll get England but at the cost of too many units. And England is pretty worthless Prize alone. If the USA and USSR enter!

UK moves Government to Egypt and gets an increase in Supply there, so you would need to gain both objectives... to knock out blow the British...

BTW: Bomber and Air Spotting sucks now, so without good ship spotting Sea Lion is very possible, it may be possible for a underdefended England to be taken with no more than 6 units an 1 HQ... Though you'll need the Luftflottes if he's entrenched in a Capitol more than likely. The FSJ is great for an empty target. Like Manchester!

Also a tip! Amphibious units in Port do not recieve punishment accept from fighters-subs-carriers, Air spots good on Land! so 1 good english fighter scouting brest has given away what you're doing long before you do it! especially if he targets it and removes the fog of war. I'm not an expert at this but beware, Hotseat exactly what you think is the most Cloaked approach. Becareful! If you want to conceal an invasion the most direct route isn't always the best. As far as the Kriegsmarine, without tech it's best used as Recon itself to protect you invasion Flotilla.. Good luck and the real art of SC2 is the Invasion and Conquest of Russia. England is something a 2 year old can accomplish.

Originally posted by The Great Santini:

I have been unable to find a discussion of the mechanics of Sealion by searching the forum. I have a few questions. (1) If the Allied player has left the majority of his units in Egypt is it possible to do a snap Sealion after France is conquered? Or must Egypt be attacked first? (2) Are certain tech advances necessary before Sealion? (3) Is a first invasion turn capture of London essential for a successful invasion? If so, how is this accomplished? (4) Does the Axis player need the Bismarck and Tirpitz in his invasion fleet for sea cover before launching the attack? And should the Axis player expect the annihilation of his navy even in a successful Sealion? (5) How does the new patch complicate the invasion of and defense of England(air spotting, transport damage, cheaper paratroopers,etc.)?

[TaoJah]

(1) Yes, if he left all units in Egypt.

(2) Advanced infantry 3 is nice.

(3) Yes, you need London.

I do this by attacking Londond with all 4 airplanes that I have, land three armies next to it and take it with the paratroopers. Next turn I transport a HQ and an extra Corps.

(4) No, you don't need the two extra ships. Your Navy will be destroyed, yes.

(5)The new patch makes it alot harder for the Allied player to spot the Sealion because you can't spot with his bomber anymore. That bug will be corrected in the next patch.

Sealion depends on succesfully landing three armies. You need your 3 sbmarines and two cruisers to protect them from the Royal Navy. You can also use some Italian Corps in transports to help intercept the German fleet.

Now all this is against the AI. I don't think that against a moderate/good player you can do a Sealion because he will keep ships around the UK and block you.

That means he can not go sub hunting will all his fleet or move his fleet to Egypt, so it's reasonably safe to do sub-raids and to attack Egypt.

Lately, I wonder if the time table allows an Axis player to buy all 6 subs he can buy and THEN do a Sealion.

And I do not agree with people that say that a Sealion is not worth it. If you can do it, it is a game-winner.

If you can take Egypt and make the UK surrender, you won the war, that's for sure. Then you own both the Mediterranian and the Atlantic. That means that you keep the US out of the war : there is no way that they can land their troops if you patrol the Atlantic with your combined German and Italian fleet.

The problem is taking Egypt. You can not take Egypt if the Allied player moves all units there.

If you only do a Sealion and don't attack Egypt or can't take it, the advantadges of Sealion are more debatable. If the UK fleet is still intact (it usually is), then the US can do a good D-Day. And they can do it EARLY since their readiness went up alot. A D-Day without the UK mainland is weaker and you don't have to worry too much about looooong ranged paratroops, but it's still doable for the Allied to do a good D-Day, I think.

[n0kn0k]

I think the Sovjets will rape you while you do that At least in HvH games.

[arado234]

If you have in the script the uk govt moves to canada i dont see you totaly defeating england.But i dont know what type of army they will have if the only country they have left is canada.Also because engineers are much cheaper now you may run into a hornets nest of forts.That will make it tougher.Good luck.

[TaoJah]

In the deafult, they don't go to Canada, so...

And yes, the Russian will pound on you HARD, but that will be the only front you have to defend. Plus, you can use all those garrison corpses that you keep in France, Germany, Brussels and Denmark against a D-Day to fight the Russians.

I'd like to see that fight : I think you got a good chance as Axis to win it.

[BioWizard]

I think Sealion is an option only if Egypt is already in Axis hands. Otherwise, it gives Supply 10 to Western Allies in Africa and that is very dangerous!

Also in most H vs H games, Sealion is done by the Axis mostly when England is playing too aggressive and leaving its mainland not sufficiently defended. This way, it is a quick way to get rid of all those nasty units in Norway/Algeria/Tunisia/Syria/Malta.

Finally, a successful Sealion killing England is not necessarily a golden path to victory! I once overcame it against the second best player on Panzerliga in version 1.02. In that version, taking Iraq with Russia and Ireland with USA gave these countries to England that started accumulating money to no use and USA could no longer send convoy to Russia! Now in version 1.05a, the liberated countries turn toward their liberators and there is now a direct convoy between USA and Archangel! Of course, you need a very strong Russia to beat a Sealion and Industrial tech is a must! In any case, if most of Russia is still in Russian hands, Axis has all minors, and both USA and Russia are ind tech lvl 5, Allies outproduce Axis even if England is out of the game...

[JJColorado]

1) Yes a Sealion in 40 is optimal imo. I think it's standard to start the battle for Egypt very quickly after Sealion launches or even before Sealion as you don't want the Brit capitol to be moved to Egypt then give them time to build up there - you want to be right on them quickly - you don't have long to take them out since US will be coming in and their supply will soon be high in Africa.

2) No particular tech advances are necessary. IW is the most useful I think.

3) No you don't need London on first turn - I've successfully invaded Britain w/o taking London on turn 1 - just be sure to get an HQ or two ashore and safe. Your 3 air units should be bombing London already so it should go down very easily when you do attack it.

4) No you don't need both. The more ships the better but I don't invest in my navy much if at all w/ Germany - you just want your ships to scout and screen - not really to fight. They are there to die instead of your amphibs - not to win. And yes the Kriegsmarine will be devastated in any Sealion.

5) You mentioned the main factors of new patch: I usually keep my Brit bomber as far south as I can and still have it survive - usually N or E of London. It can do heavy damage to anything at sea. If the RN gets well into your amphibs you are gonna lose a lot of troops - and an alert Brit will get his RN into your amphibs - expect losses.

Finally I think Sealion is only a good strategy if the CW player is trying to get away w/ not defending England and is instead deploying his navy and army on the periphery in the main (Egypt, Norway, BOA, etc).

[ev]

I play Sea Lion somewhat like JJ, with these twists:

1) Time is of the esence. At the latest I will land in England by August '40. After that it becomes increasingly harder and harder. I start preparing for Egypt as soon as France falls... but I could conceivably invade England before the fall of France.

2) No particular techs are necessary, but the most usefull are Advanced Air and Long Range. I try hard to blind the Allied player. ...i.e. knock out their bombers and airfleets, or, at the very least, force them as far north as possible (the artic is cool enough). Once the allied player is blind, you are go.

3) You don't need London on the firt turn.

If London is very heavily defendend with multiple land units around it, chances are there is an empty port somewhere else... If you find it, great. Othewise, go for London.

A port is most usefull, you have to take London sooner or later, and all your airfleet, paratroopers and amph units can hit it. The Big Ben is waiting for you.

4) I don't find the Kriegsmarine usefull at all. ...I much rather invest money in an extra paratrooper to hit London, or an extra Airfleet to get rid of those pesty allied airbombers and airfleets. Or a long range heavy bomber to recon the seas and to spot undefended city/ports...

5) ...exactly what I meant when I said Advanced Air and Long Range were most usefull. If the Brit bomber detects your landing, your are in for a lot of trouble.

The very day you invade Poland you have to start working on the means to get rid of that bomber - research, additional air units, an additional paratrooper to attack that bomber the turn before the invasion bomber, whatever you chose... Just make sure that bomber is visiting the Artic Circle or dining in Hades by August 40.

Also, during your invasion of France, try hard to destroy that BEF. You want England to be defenseless. The whole purpose of this strategy is to invade England before they recover from their losses in France.

...of course, in order to achive this you have to make sacrifices in research and diplomacy during 1939 and early '40. Make sure you research advanced air and long range... at the expense of everything else. A bomber or a second paratrooper would be great, but they may not be ready in time. Always keep an eye on the calendar.