AAR, Liam vs. Jollyguy

[Jollyguy]

This game started when Liam (Axis) and I (Allies) were both SC 2 newbies, actually, it was the first SC 2 game for both of us, so we’ve both made mistakes. It’s spring of 1943, so the game is well along.

Game started as tcp, and that worked fine except that Liam hosted and set a five minute timer, which BTW we both decided was too short. It’s been all pbem since, as we haven’t been able to coordinate tcp times. Early game was usual as far as I can remember. But after reading of Terif’s vigorous defense of Egypt strategy I decided to do the same, and we fought toe-to-toe there for quite awhile. The difference is that I didn’t hit Tobruk early on because it hadn’t occurred to me then. There were turns that Liam had to back up and reinforce, me the same, and Russian readiness was climbing slowly the whole time, and as he mentioned in an earlier post, Malta was generous to me, both on my turns and his. Then he pulled an amphib attack in the Jordan/Palestine area behind my lines and that sealed it. I had earlier upgraded my escape port to AA, and kept a carrier there to guard it, as if that got reduced my entire Middle East force would have been trapped, and you have to plan accordingly, as you can only get two ships/transports out at a time. But I was able to get everything out except a corp or two, but I did lose some navy. He took Norway, but was so weakened after our knock-down-drag-out in the Middle East that he didn’t DOW Russia, which probably saved him US readiness. I reinforced England to avoid a Sea Lion, and at the same time his subs were patrolling, dinging my mpps, then not patrolling, so I assumed he was pulling them back as he got additional sub advances, which of course concerned me. He kept pushing in the Caucusses and got a city and a mine and then I started to push toward Iraq and got within two squares of his oil field, but then I ran out of supply and he was hitting me with air, and we went back-and-forth a bit. I finally set up in the mountains and he started to pull back toward Iraq/Iran, but he steadily moved forward in Russia proper and the Finns joined and he took Leningrad. Then the US joined. Given that he had advanced subs I researched up to level 3 ASW for the US, and finally scraped enough research mpps to get the MPP starved Brits up to ASW 2, and then moved out. Meanwhile he was bogged down in the Caucusses with low supply, so I was able to slowly reclaim my oilfield and city, which is where that front is now. But he also has his paratrooper down there, so I have to leave my cities garrisoned. He took Moscow and has me backed up to Stalingrad, but I still hold that other city to the southwest, but can’t remember its name. His strategy is to siege a city by totaling surrounding it but not attacking it, reducing it to five and reducing its supply, then hit it the next turn.

As to diplomacy, he got Spain up to 82%, which made me buy five chits for the Brits and then five for Russians as soon as they came in, as I had to assume he had the Italians buy five. That hasn’t moved since Russia came in, so we’re obviously at a standoff, ten chits each. I thought about having the US buy five and tilt it in my favor, but at 82% Axis that would take forever and cost me more chits each time there was a success, so a standoff is fine. I did get success with Sweden though with US chits, so I think his convoys from there have stopped.

Meanwhile, out west, I found his subs, but he had them on silent, and they were only at advanced subs level one. So my assumption was wrong, he didn’t research advanced subs at all, but having them pop in-and-out confused me, which means I over invested in ASW, as I was up to level three for the US, level two for the Brits. I sunk all three in quick order, plus a BB and cruiser, then landed two US armies and a HQ around Brest as winter loomed. Mistake. My air was virtually useless, and he was able to hold for several turns, twice down to strength 1. Plus, the whole time I was hitting Brest as if only the unit in front could attack, and then on the third turn I was on French soil I realized that squares instead of hexes would have allowed my other army to attack also. Another mistake. At first he ignored my invasion, but has now operated a significant force west, and I may lose my HQ, as he has advanced motorization, and I can’t disband the HQ as it’s abutting an Italian corp. I did hit Paris with my bombers, so he had to operate to Antwerp and kick off from there. Anyway, I finally took Brest, but we’ll see how long that lasts. At the same time I took the northern Norwegian city and mine.

That’s where things sit. The most important lesson to me is that weather must be taken into account, as it can both a savior and impediment. I also notice in Russia that it’s harder to set up a defensive line, with motorization a unit can use the squares to squeeze between the juncture of units and get behind you. And, as Blashy mentioned, advanced air is of less value, as its only good against other air units. You can just put yours on ground mode and move then around until you find a spot where your enemy has little air, and use them there.

[Panzerkeil]

Nice report, JG. Best wishes in your campaign. Nothing against Liam, I like to cheer for the underdog.

Would I be correct in assuming that you are using the "railhead" option, that only allows you to operate to cities of a certain rating? That would explain the necessity of hitting Paris, severing transport in France. How exactly does this work?

[Blashy]

Railheads only do one thing.

You have to be adjacent to a city or on a city and with a supply of 5 or better to be able operate units.

So you can not be in the middle of Russia with a supply of 10 and operate a unit away.

This might seem more realistic but do remember that this game is on a grand scale, plenty of railroads all over europe and not just major city to major city we see on the map.

Railheads does nothing else.

[Jollyguy]

Liam set the game up, but no railhead option that I know of. I landed a corps and cut off the two French cites from Paris, then bombed it to get it below 5, so units can't be operated to it. He was very thin in France, so this worked as he didn't want to unentrench his Paris minor army to come after me. I also landed in the two northern German cities, but that raid is over, my corps are POWs in some Stalag.

Railhead head sounds interesting though, it would seem to benefit the Russians, and they can use it early Barbarossa.

Bob

[Liam]

So far JollyGuy has done fairly well considering errors he has made. He has let my subs operate freely, and no they're returned to base for Supply not for any other reason. Subs operating out in the open seas run out of morale quickly and must have new torpedoes, crew leave, etc... All those fine French prostitutes and Champagne couldn't prepare them for Sonar though

In the Caucasus, I am down also to supply 5, lost a Tank, Army and Corps there but I achieved my objective, I destroyed 2 oilfields, 1 city. Really stalmated him from going further and tied up a Huge portion of Reds there... Meanwhile the Wermacht has dominated the Open Terrain in the South of Russia, Vorzeneh SP? has been taken, and now the new Capitol of Stalingrad is the only remaining feat for my UberUnits, all maxed out in IW and other techs, that I'll let JollyGuy soon see...

In the West, Patton was captured, so that is the end of D-Day, and Brest though still Allied is of little concern to the High Command, all in all, the Allies probably now outproduce the Axis but we know have the Military Upperhand, which was in question during '42... We had invested heavily in Advanced Armaments instead of Economy and it has payed off. I can only say JollyGuy has suffered some weaknesses spreading his tech chits in the wrong fields, let me hack up about 200-300 MPPs of British Income. Also tying up lots of British Assets by taking the MiddleEast and forcing the Diplomatic Scene. No Western Invasion has succeeded, and though my troops are spread to the breaking point they now are dominate. I do not have the Max of HQs, but 3 Uber HQs are now on Mainland Europe...and many of them with experience... 8 or 9 armor is on the scene, this game will be a slugfest across the Volga. The Reds have fought well, they have misplaced units. They have managed to in a few instances nearly harm the Wermacht.

5 Red Armies, 5-10 Corps, 1 or 2 Tanks hold the line... His Airforce is inferior and no stress for me. I also managed to flank and nearly destroy Zhukov

This is a first for us both and for a bit I didn't know the way that it would go.. Although what has prevailed is superior Land Weapondry for the Wermacht and that's all that has mattered and apparently all that does if you are able to get a foothold in the right regions.. I think the Allies could have pushed earlier on their MPPs and taken the advantages but it's late... 6-7 Axis Units under Manny are counterattacking the half a Million Americans in Normandy

This is a Dark Day for the West

[Liam]

There is mud in June in much of Russia for me, this isn't working...

Now Level 5 German Tanks are present, there are some level4 Red ones... the showdown for Stalingrad is on..Gorky is down, Brest is Liberated for the Axis

[Liam]

Massive Red Counteroffensive, 4 level 4 Red tanks appear. Perhaps more behind the lines. All stemming from behind Stalingrad. 3 out of 4 seen are destroyed by superior German armor. Rostov, HeadQuarters destroyed by Wermacht. German Tigers smash holes throughout the Red Lines, now is the back broken of the Soviet Armed Forces? 4 partisans operating at once, appearing all over in July ! We crush them under the boots of our superior technology and tank tracks...

No remaining Allies on Western Soil aside fron Norway and Bergen, Oslo firmly Axis

[Blashy]

You only get ONE shot at a huge counter offensive with Russia, you miss it......

[Liam]

Originally posted by Blashy:

You only get ONE shot at a huge counter offensive with Russia, you miss it......

Agreed, unless this guy has got 6 or 7 more of those Red tanks, 5-10 more corps he will not have a second chance. This is late in the game, Summer of '43.. Been a slow and steady advance.. very difficult terrain to navigate, and I've been worried about being smacked by 10 Red Tanks

[Liam]

More Red Tanks appear out of seemingly nowhere, Stalin sends them into a dashing effort, a couple of German Armies and corps are destroyed in the effort even some Panzers however we counter attack again! Even With our own Tigers out of Range we manage to kill of plenty of Red equipment, our Fighters now operated from the West aiding in the effort. Rostov is now firmly Axis. The Caucasus are now going to be left open for another good 2 or 3 Months of Weather and the weather is better Down South so things are not looking good for the Allies. Stalingrad is soon directly threatened, only supply is our problem. North and South USSR is seperated, North has only corp defense, South is being slowly eaten away at... Game expected not to last another Summer with any real hopes for the Allies

[Blashy]

Are you guys playing with softbuild limits?

I've discovered that this IMHO imbalances the game, as you tend to see to much of a few types of troops that would most likely have no been possible historically.

Like a gazillion corps and tank only. It also favors the Axis to have softbuild limits on.

[Jollyguy]

Huge land battle in Russia, basically the Kursk of the game. Liam has level 5 tanks, myself level 4. The game will likely be decided there, and IMO Liam has the upper hand. No softbuild limits that I know of. We've been exchanging several pbem turns a day, and I try to knock a turn off before I head to work.

Disagree that I tied down a large amount of units in Caucusses, as the mountains help you there, and you have to step the advance somehow. I used mainly corps, with one tank and a HQ.

Brest was a rookie mistake for me, but hey, this is my first game, and Liam is a premier player, so I'm learning as I go.

I'm not convinced that all the concern of amphibious tranports is warranted. They can be planned for, and IMO many times if you get sideswiped, then you didn't plan well. Pulling off a landing still requires foresight, and if not done correctly, it's Dunkirk time. I was able to evacuate two armies, but did lose Patton, but he does come back cheaper in his second life.

I did make some poor research mistakes, but again, that's the learning curve. I think one thing about research is you're like a kid in a candy story, "yea, ASW, looks good, and pile on some some advanced tanks on the platter, and oh yea, long range air, sounds good." I think one of the keys, which Terif mentioned in an earlier post, is to backoff on the research at some point, and start building up. I think this is even more important for the Russians, as a few extra units here and there can turn the tide in what looks like will be massive, classic, battles of manuever in the Russian steppes.

Also made a big mistake about 1/2 a dozen turns ago. I bought a Russian tank, then realized I should have reinforced my existing units first. I had to cash in many of my Russian research chits, had no other option, as to back up would have lost my entrenchment.

I would say tanks and motorization and infantry weapons are key for the Axis, so SC 1 players are simply going to have to realize that the monster of the game are tanks now, not planes. Although, planes are effective against tanks, so we have a true combined arms game here.

For the Russians I would say tanks, anti-tank, infantry weapons, don't break your entrenchment, and stop with the research at some point and start building units.

All-in-all a great game, having a great time. If I lose I want rematch as Allies again, then I'd like to take my try as Axis.

[Blashy]

Russia is cool, you get IW, AT at max ASAP.

Then you can slowly climb HT, keep them ON cities, they kick ass hiding in cities and ambushing the enemy.

Remember, Siberian transfer comes with max possible tech, so those 3 are a HUGE bonus for Soviets, troops at max tech with 1 bar experience for free .

[Liam]

Jolly Guy would be correct, we fought our Kursk. This time however the Russians were not dug in and the line was not so strong defensively. My Superior technology was able to outflank and outmanuever the Russians, though running thin on supply and trading my armor for his armor, he didn't have the reserves that Russians had at Kursk, and after the slaughter the previous year, he didn't have the soldiers either that the Wermacht fielded. All Red Guard Tanks except 1 that I'm aware of North of Stalingrad are destroyed. Meanwhile German reinforcements were brought in from other fronts where they'd enjoyed success and the Luftwaffe has turned the tide. The entire front is collapsing, only Winter can save the Reds now, they're but a barebone fighting force of say a Million men and if but a thousand tanks. Meanwhile the Wermacht possesses a strong 2 Million Man Army several thousand tanks, all superior technologically, more experienced along with total air supremacy

[Jollyguy]

Conceded my Allied game vs. Liam as Axis. IMO Liam played a great game, as mentioned, the first SC 2 game for both of us. He adapted better than myself to the nuances of SC 2, and did what you have to do as an Axis player, which is hit Russia hard and don’t let up, while playing a delaying game out west for as long as possible.

What happened is that he was so weak after Egypt that he didn’t DOW Russia, and actually took a couple turns to start a limited invasion. But once he got going he just kept coming, slowly but surely. He would take turns to repair and upgrade, then push forward again. What I should have done is first, shifted away from research and have more units in the queue earlier than I did. And second, waited just a bit more to launch my counter-offensive in Russia. What he did was bait me with a couple understrength corps and an army, which I took out, but then he landed hard on me with his level 5 tanks, the real monsters of SC 2. When our massive battle in the steppes was over he was left standing with a battered but still offensively capaable force, while I was left with a handful of units that had to go on the defensive.

I was going to take Norway and then Sweden, and then retreat to redoubts in Russia, but with Russia broken he would have been able to catch his breath and start shifting forces west, while still pushing forward like a bulldog in the east.

The other very interesting thing of note is that Liam did not attack Spain or Vichy or Sweden or even Yugoslavia, until after they went Allied. My guess is he had level 4 or 5 industrial and that other tech, manufacturing? I can’t remember its name. He probably also had some infrastructure So he went with that and focused primarily on Russia.

I want a rematch, me as Allies again, a ladder game, but haven’t heard back yet.

Bob