Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 There is one thing to keep in mind: there is a huge difference between Pioneers and the people who build fortifications.. Pioneers as a fighting unit do not build concrete fortifications, and the russian citizens who build the defensive lines do not fight at all. Pioneers as a fighting unit should get bonuses when attacking fortified cities or across rivers (as in PanzerGeneral), but there was no corps or army sized pure Pioneer fighting unit in WW2. For that reason I would dump the current system; for instance Baugruppe Todt didn`t fight at all... they just built fortifications. I would suggest that the pioneer units must not fight at all, but take less damage from air attacks and shore bombardments.. even the RAF won`t send many bombers on an old man with a wheelbarrow. With this measure I want to make sure that they don`t get killed by aerial attacks or shore bombardment; this didn`t happen in the war. Next to this they should not have ANY combat values; if they get attacked from another ground unit, they simply retreat 2 hexes in the other direction (if encircled, they get killed)... unlike our HQs which can stand 3-4 attacks sometimes in a turn. Another idea can be that attacks simply lowers the efficiency of the unit and doesn`t kill it... Makes it way more realistic in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Hyazinth von Strachwitz ...at least to me, what you say makes sense!,...it look's good on paper!. The way you explain it, seem's like it could work out game-wise!. I guess we'll soon hear from the 'Game Design Experts' as to how your argument can fit in!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Thx for your feedback... Honestly I find it rather difficult to imagine that fighting AND fortifying should take place simultaneosly.. "Hey Franz, you shoot Ivan and I operate the concrete mixer, is that okay to you?"... Fortifying means hard engineer work... not just digging trenches. Digging trenches is included in the normal entrechment levels a unit can reach standing by simply standing on the open plains; so the work the current Engineer units do is somewhat different. As I said above: these units should be non-fighting units... another idea to solve that problem can be that the engineer unit gets transported to the next friendly city automatically as soon as an enemy unit steps close to them... just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin I Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Well, it doesn't take a unit, pioneer or otherwise, to upgrade a port or city. Both recover from war damage in time and you can spend MPP for antiaircraft defenses. I guess the logical extension is scrap engineers completely (I know I suggested an offensive function but this alone doesn't justify a new unit class) and build fortifications as a strategic action that is similar to city upgrades. Think the proviso is it should take multiple turns to build the things, that you should specify in advance the intended location and any enemy unit coming adjacent to partially built fortifications destroys them automatically. This allows Germans to fortify France or Russians to build defenses without a single unit running frantically around the place. On the whole, suits scale/scope of SC2 better as long as we get the time and MPP cost right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireball Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 This is an excellent idea. Make it an upgrade option on the strategic level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 @ Colin: I like this solution as well... would solve many problems... and makes it more realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 This sounds almost like a solution, How about ordering a construction of a Fortification in a Tile or hex that cannot be undone unless an enemy is attacking it, that will cost a set amount and that contructs itself invisibly or even visibly, and isn't done till say whatever, 30 days, 90 days.. Just like constructing Fortifications now.. The Engineer Unit is very superflous.. I'd take the Engineer and make something useful out of him personally like a Medium Bomber unit that is more cost efficient, and more interesting.. That or numerous Land units... The way fortifications act this is still debated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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