Thoughts & Comments on HQ Units

[Edwin P.]

1. I like the concept of HQ units as implemented.

2. I would like to see some option, as Sombra suggested, for purchasing a HQ unit blind. For one did not really know the quality of one's generals until they tasted battle. Perhaps an option to purchase blind at a lower cost.

Perhaps, a unit purchased blind should also have its rating hidden util its first battle.

I recall that in SPI's War Between the States that HQ units were picked randomly, with some rated 3 stars and other 5 stars. The rating affected the chance of being able to move that unit.

3. In WWII armies with a good general staff fared better than those without.

One way to reflect this might be to allow a player to promote a single HQ unit (with a rating of 7 or higher) to a Supreme HQ. A Supreme HQ unit gives a bonus to HQ units (and only HQ units) of cooperative allies (thus Eisenhower could help US and UK units) under its command, boosting their rating by 1.

Players would have to decide between having Eisenhower operate as a Combat HQ unit with a strength of 8 or operating as a Supreme HQ giving a bonus to each HQ under his command.

4. A portrait of the HQ's general in the HQ unit's information popup window would be appreciated.

5. Perhaps Higher Intel Levels should allow a player to see the location of the most highly decorated enemy HQ unit (ie the one with the most medals) or to access a list of their names.

In WWII the American and British public knew the name of General Rommel.

It seems to me that Allied Intel would know the names and rank of every deployed enemy HQ unit, much as the Axis would know the same information about the Allied forces.

Intel Level 3 - You can access a report that lists all HQ Units, Allied and Axis.

Germany - Rommel (8)

Germany - Kesselring (9)

USA - Eisenhower (8)

USA - Patton (7)

etc.

[ January 11, 2006, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[jon_j_rambo]

In Victory Game's Civil War, leaders were also placed randomly & assigned to an Army (Potomac, Cumberland, Virginia, etc.). It would take movement points to get the sorry ass leaders out of command.

By the way, why is Rommel higher ranked than Patton? Patton defeated him & his book. Rommel kills himself? What kind of leader is that?

[clabinskys]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Rommel kills himself? What kind of leader is that?

I'm sure you know Rommel was forced to commit suicide after being implemented in the 20 July plot to kill Hitler.

Edwin

I wouldn't go so far as to allow the opponent to see the exact location of the best HQ.

Personally, I think all HQ's should be bought blindly. At least an option should be provided to do so.

[Edwin P.]

My thinking was that Allied Intelligence, at Intel Tech Level 4 for example, would be so good that you would know where the top ranked enemy general was. Much like in real life where allied intelligence tracked the movements of Rommel and German intelligence tracked Patton. Naturally you would only gain this benefit at the specified Intel level. If you didn't develop your Intel AI tech you would not gain this power.

[ January 11, 2006, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[beginner's luck]

BUt the question I have for you, EDWIN ,would this be something useful or a waste of time putting in game. While I like idea about "something" more being recieved for higher INTEL research,I dont really see benefit from this one.

Maybe I'm missing something but I never didnt attack someone cause of his HQ in area. Just had to deal with what I was up against. Again not saying I'm a expert but unless SC2 HQ's effect play WAY more than I thinking this would be a waste feature in game.

I guess if you wanted to say " I beat Rommel " in such and such week than maybe. But since I have to kill units and take capitals to win I really dont care what HQ the other side has ,just mine.

[Edwin P.]

True, but knowing where your enemy's best HQ unit is often, when playing against other humans, a good hint as to where his offensive operation will be focused.

Think of it as impacting your future plans. Seeing a HQ unit move in a transport towards the Mediterranean, Norway or the coast of France might tell you something, especially if your enemy does not know you can see his HQ unit. With this information you can prepare to ambush the invasion force.

How the information is interpreted and used will determine its value.

In fact I would say that:

Level 3 Intel - see Report listing deployed HQ units

Level 4 Intel - see location of 1 HQ unit of each major nation

Level 5 Intel - see location of 2 HQ units of each major nation

would be quite valuable to a player that knew how to use this information. It won't tell you the whole picture, but it can give you good insight into the plans of your enemy. Insight that you can; perhaps, use to defeat him.

Of course if he knows you have Intel 4 or 5 he may use the movement of his HQ unit to mislead you.

That I would say is true Intel. Information that can be useful if correctly interpreted or deadly if misinterpreted.

Of course, my guess is that many players will not invest in Intel and will focus on the more concrete techs such as Jets, Armor, Anti-Armor, and Anti-Infantry. And this idea for allowing those with high intel levels to spot 1 or 2 enemy HQ units will probably not see the light of day.

PS: As for what value is a report listing enemy HQ units - you can use that to get a good idea of whether the allies can launch an invasion of France. If the Western allies have 4 HQ units, then you need to prepare for an Allied invasion. if the Western allies have only 2 HQ units they will probably not invade anytime soon.

In Summary: I would like to see Intel provide a player with hints as to what his opponent may be doing. It should be up to the player to properly interepret this information.

[ January 12, 2006, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[beginner's luck]

Well if you could spot them while they are moving than yes. But unless I'm mistaken , most the time the intel during WW2 was a little different. I would say that most the time they found out who was where after they arrived,not in transit. Obviously, knowing an invasion was coming would have be awesome but a little "too much" info vice what was reality. I'm sure the Germans knew that say Bradley was in England and that the allies were going to invade "some where". But they didnt know where while he was in transit only after the beach landings.

I think it would take some of the playablity out of SC2 if you could figure out all the moves of your opponent even during FOW.

What about this idea though, what about if the Hq's were able to increase or decrease ratings based on how good the battle went. As their exp. rose so would their rating.

[Edwin P.]

As they are successful in battle, HQs receive more experience and this helps units attached to them.

[clabinskys]

Edwin, you are truly a support for BF.

Your suggestions are interesting, but I they do sound like a band aid to strengthen a feature that seems like a band aid in itself. Honestly, I would scrap the whole thing and make a deeper analysis of the requirements would be to satisfy the abstraction of true intel or leave it out completely.

It is true that opposing sides knew the area of operations for most of the commanders either through intel by spies, resistance groups etc or combat engagements with prisoners taken or pairing insignias of KIA's with unit and commander.

Still, having this information and allowing an opponent to indirectly destroy a critical unit, by for example airpower, such as a HQ seems too "gamey" for my taste. Being able to get a general, diffuse, report on estimated troop strength and name of commander in a certain area would be closer to reality in my opinion.

For what it's worth, here is how I would implement the intel without knowing or even thinking that it is feasible in the current system, let alone time to do it.

The players should be able to buy intel points using a progressive cost scale. Each point allows the user to select a location on the map. When a location is selected, the location and all adjacent locations would become visible and units in any of those locations could be examined. Having intel level 0 could allow only adjacent locations to be examined. For each level, this radius could be increased.

Adding the above to a general intel report where diffuse information would be given as to where specific HQ's are located i.e. country or region, but not specific location would allow a player to make an edjucated location selection based on the report. Hope this is understandable.

This system would also lend itself to counter intelligence, by allowing a player to use intel points on his/her own hexes...sorry locations to counter an opponent's selection.

I have not put much thought into this, but I would argue for a solution that basically deals with countering FOW. I'm sure all of the bright people out there would either dismiss this idea or take it to a higher level.

Mahalo

[synystr]

The Allies had a key advantage in intel most certainly, that being the Enigma leak, and took advantage of the absence of German commanders on a variety of occasions. Often, the Germans found themselves "caught with their pants down".

I think the Allies should have the ability to crack the Enigma Code, and Axis to protect it somewhere throughout the game. This is merely a suggestion, and likely not the finest one there is, I'm still a newb when it comes to this stuff.