Cassino - worse than Eastern battles?

[Sublime]

I'm not an uber-grog so I wont try to get into an argument of whether on pg xx of this book Beevor misplaced XX Pz Division by 50 miles, but at least IMHO Beevor's Stalingrad, but especially Beevor's Berlin books were very good. I really like his style of writing, and I think he manages very well to capture the flow of events and placement of key units, while still keeping you 'there' as far as a soldiers/refugees/correspondent's/civilians perspective...

[Dandelion]

I agree myself Sublime. With every sentence there actually.

He writes of the major developments of the war and is manifestly uninterested in details such as numbers and equipment etc. At best he leaves such matters unmentioned, at worst he hands you faulty data. But the lack of research on the equipment side is in my humble opinion matched by his intense personal interest in the characters he portrays and in the greater scope of things - i.e. the analysis part.

As a second opinion on the two books you have yet to read (I think), my comments would be;

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His book on the Spanish civil war will make you none the wiser about units, uniforms, equipment or OOB's. I was still very pleased though, because the political developments of those years are frustratingly complex to study, and I find that Beevor manages to (only just) make them easy to follow. Gave me a summary and overview that I didn't have, a sort of reference and timetable, with key developments and allows you to get to know some key players. I find myself very often returning to it actually, and it inspired me to dig deeper into the topic. I would sincerely recommend it in these respects.

For alternative reading, I've read some good ones on more defined topics, such as the international brigades and of course Hemmingways non-fiction book on Spain etc. The only English speaking book I can think of to cover the whole war would be Burnett Bollottens The Spanish Revolution, which is frequently referred to as source in many of these books, but I haven't read it myself.

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The book on Crete (actually it covers events from the invasion of Greece by Italy to 1945) is much the same in many ways, as it also does not really focus on details of the military campaigns. Focus is on political development, both domestic British/CW and Greek, and bilateral relations between these two. He also has an impressive array of character portraits on allied players, both key and minor, which is rather motivated due to the density of colourful and charming professionals and dilettants active here. Again he is much into the analysis, with significance and consequence of events, some what-if's and so on. As you'll have seen in earlier posts, I don't agree with all his conclusions, but I still read the book with interest and enjoyment and again I can recommend it as introduction to the East Balkan theatre of operations, western allied point of view.

For alternative reqading, Alan Clarks The fall of Crete is often mentioned. Its one of these old fashion 2nd generation author books ("Victory in the West" type), not a skilled narrator but packed with useful data. Its the only English speaking one I've read, though I know von der Heydte's book is published in English, title "Daedalus Returned". Also, its always very interesting to read the unit war diaries, especially as British/CW ones are so accessible with such friendly staff helping you find what you need.

If you read German I have a few additional tips on works if you're interested.

Regards

Dandelion

[Firefly]

Originally posted by Dandelion:

For alternative reading, I've read some good ones on more defined topics, such as the international brigades and of course Hemmingways non-fiction book on Spain etc. The only English speaking book I can think of to cover the whole war would be Burnett Bollottens The Spanish Revolution, which is frequently referred to as source in many of these books, but I haven't read it myself.

Orwell's Homage to Catalonia is good as a personal reminiscence and gives details of how the militias on the Catalan front operated and lived. Huw Thomas' The Spanish Civil War and Ronald Fraser's The Blood of Spain are pretty good too, but again only look at the big picture and wouldn't be much help if you were looking for information for a wargame scenario.

[Los]

I like Beevor's book on Crete a tad over Clark's in terms or readbility and a better look at all the facets of the invasion. I kind of disagree that Beevor doesn't cover details because there are some good details of the fighting, but then again remember that Beevor's book is covering Crete from beginning to end of war and about a third of the book covers the occupation.

But most all the major books on Crete suffer from the same thing. They're all overwhelmingly "anglo-centric". Both Beevor and Clark are 90% Allied side of the story. You get all kinds of great details on what various Brit, NZ and Australian units did, what the commanders were thinking and analysis on why they did this or that. Very little on german or Greek side of the story.

It's not like there's a lack of primary source material as well as a large number (Actually fast dwindling now) or German para vets still alive, well organized and willing to help out researchers with their time and experiences. Having attended the german airborne course near Altenstadt eleven years ago, I had many great conversation with some of the old hands who used to show up and the Officers and NCO's mess every couple of days for a beer. For example last year during the anniversary of Crete about a dozen reenactros met up with veterans of the battle at Maleme and even had the vets walking up to Hill 107, showing them what approach routes they took for the attacks, where they set up machineguns and all kinds of details on the actions. Little effort seems to be made to have interviewed many German participants of the battle at any level.

Of course in some of the books this is somewhat understandable such as the excellent NZ histories (overall plus the ones written on each battalion). But in a general survey book on the battle there should be a more equal distribution of information on what each side was doing and thinking.

Another book "Ten Days to destiny:The Battle of Crete, 1941" by George Kiriakopoulos at elast brings into detail the Greek contribution to the defense since in many acccounts in articles and what not the Greeks barely rate a mention. Despite some of the critcal fighting they did (i.e. 2d greek regiment, as well as covering the withdrawl). And it's certainly one of the only books that sheds some details on the Greek "partisan" aspects fo resisting the invasion. But still not a teribble lot from the Germans side.

"Daedelus Returns" is a good book but this is by no means a history of the fighting or even von der Heydte's regiment. (It's more like reading some ramblings from your art teacher.) His style is that of a participant, and it's a good book (read it to my Kid as a bed time story!), but anyone looking for insight into the fighting, or commanders, decion making processes other than some interesting anecdotes is left high and dry. (Though we do find out which peers and commanders von der Hydte thought were a***oles).

"Heaven and Hell" by Poppel has a chapter some good personal experiences on the fighting but he wasn't at the critcal Maleme fighting.

There are some GREAT picture albums from the fighting: Nasse's "Fallschirmjager in Crete" and Peter Stahl's "Kreta" (IIRC). But Stahl just gives a cursory overview of the fighting. Nasse's is better and has a ton a good personal accounts but still is lacking in tying these details together clearly into the overall story of the battle.

Kurowski's "Kampf um Kreta" (in german only) has some good details and will hopefully be translated into a new edition some day.

For example by details I mean stuff like: The glider assault on 20 May with detachments Brucke, von Plessen and Koch. In most accounts I've read, you get very little detail other than Braun, Koch and von Plessen became casualties and some detail on how many gliders made it, plus the overall results (i.e. the Bofors positions were knocked out, Tavronitis Bridge was taken or initial attack on 107 failed.)

But the knocking out of the bofors positions by these guys was an immensely critical portion of taking the airfield (along with 107). These guys landed under fire , in the open, using fire and manuever to take out these positions at the mouth of the airfield as well as he west end and did the job as planned. I'd like to read more about this. (though I did hear about it in Germany from a vet who was there).

Or taking the bridge. There was nearly a whole Company (D/22) assigned to cover the bridge and that sector of the river bed. But the Germans landed under their nose and with heavy casualties took that position. Would you like to know more? I sure as hell would.

Instead we get details of how many Germans Kippenberger or Andrews picked off with their Lee Enfields and what great sport the whole venture was. Fascinating or interesting stuff to be sure, and critical to the Allied side of the story, but lets hear more from the other side other than that the Paras were in shock and spent most of the morning trying to save their own skins. Well some of them were obviously doing there job.

Sidebar does anyone know of a good history of the 5th GJD?

Los