Infantry AI test - due to Madmatt's request.

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by Renaud:

In that case, try a tiny covered arc pointed AWAY from the enemy.

Notez Bien: It's not possible to give a unit a covered arc "behind" the unit; IOW, if you give a unit a tiny arc away from his facing, look at him again- he has turned around so he faces his arc. Units which come to rest will adjust themselves to point at the midpoint of their arcs.

Eden

[WineCape]

Madmatt:

Does it seem that, all things being equal, HQ's will unhide before squads when faced with an enemy unit at the same range?

Matt, yes,

I can confirm that HQ's have moved from hide status to engagaging the enemy (squad), even though the troops that the HQ's is commanding is still in hide status and laying in one line (parallel) in relation to the targetted enemy.

This has happened on several occasions playing against the AI, and I

(1) Have not used the Arc command;

(2) My troops were Veteran or better;

(3) My troops were in woods/pines;

(4) The HQ hasn't been spotted, or fired upon;

(5) Distance to enemy ranging from 95m-145m when my HQ's moved from unhide to engage.

Sincerely,

Charl Theron

[ October 27, 2002, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: WineCape ]

[Bone_Vulture]

Originally posted by Flesh:

Could this have something to do with the fact that HQ units can spot better than squads?

CMBB seems to give a spotting bonus to units equipped with binoculars, as HQ units are.

Also, if this is the case, the same problem (unhiding too early) should be seen with other units that are equipped with binoculars such as HMGs.

I think this nears the root of the problem. As I mentioned in the picture series, the HMG unhid just about the same time as the Company HQ. Both had binoculars, as did the Platoon HQ.

Now, I don't mind an HMG team opening fire at that range, since it has a poor close combat abilities, and can create effective suppressive fire even with a poorer firepower rating due to it's ammo supplies.

But what I want fixed is that underpowered units, namely HQ's, will not unhide to fire unless there's an enemy in their immediate proximity. Like it has been stated before, the greatest contribution that the HQ team gives to the battle is not it's firepower, but the skill-boosting bonuses it gives to the troops under it's command.

... I'm glad to see that my presentation is encouraging other CM players to open their eyes on the problem. Finally. :cool:

[Bruno Weiss]

Ooo Ooo, I love these Better Homes and Battlefields tests.

[Bone_Vulture]

I'd like to direct your attention to the second pic of the original post. The caption states the following...

First stupidity stunt: a squad at the front opens fire at roughly 20 meters - but it's aiming at a squad heading AWAY from the forest, instead of the squad that's running straight at 'em!

I replayed the moment, and if you look at the other squad visible in the pic, you'll notice that it's also firing at the same enemy unit, even though there's yet another enemy coming in almost behind them! :eek:

[kenfedoroff]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Ken,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The reason I am asking about this is because I suspect the computer A/I "cheats" to even the odds.

The CM AI (Tac or Strat) never ever has, and never ever will, cheat.....

Steve</font>

[Nolloff]

Maybe the "spotting bonus" works like a reduction of the relative range between units. If the engine would reduce a 100m distance between two units to 50m when the spotter has binoculars and then apply these 50m to the unit reaction instead of the correct 100m?

Nolloff

[ October 26, 2002, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Nolloff ]

[Bone_Vulture]

That's a possibility. But since the binoc's don't increase firepower, this behavior needs to be fixed.

[WineCape]

NE word on this issue, Madmatt?

[Dar]

In your "first stupidity stunt", someone mentioned earlier that it might have been an LOS obstruction in the "tall pines" that prevented the unit from firing on the closer unit. I don't quite see that in this situation, as from my experiments it takes one full tile-width of "tall pines" to block LOS.

What I think happened here is that the firing unit decided to shoot at the enemy unit that it could generate the most firepower against. Shooting through even a part of "tall pine" tile is going to reduce the effective firepower, and it looks like your firing unit had a less-obstructed LOS/LOF to the unit moving away from it.

For example, the squad may have been able to hit the unit moving away with 300 firepower points, and may have been able to hit the other unit with "only" 275, so it chose the target it was most likely to put some hurt on.

Just my $0.02!

[Keke]

Just wanted to add that HQs (without the arcs) seem to unhide themselves before units they command regardless of terrain. It was quite surprising when I played the demo first time, and in "Yelna Stare" my German HQ started firing at Soviet hordes long before others (platoon hiding in open terrain, dug-in) taking heavy casualties and panicking before I was able to manually unhide the rest of the platoon. And this happened with all HQs. But hey, I learned the use of arcs the hard way...

[ November 01, 2002, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Keke ]

[PrivateTom]

I have only played 2 battles so far but I noticed the same thing, my HQ opened up right away at units that were approx 90m away and no one else was shooting.

[silentsniper]

*Spoiler*

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This same thing happened to me in Balkovzy Suprise (sp.?), I hid the infantry in the trees and buildings, and everyone stayed hidden except for the HQ, who was targeted and killed by 5 tanks. I swear I heard one of the rifle squads mutter, "That's what he gets."