Minor kill count bug, or a feature I didn't know about?

[Tarquelne]

I just finished a QB. Looking over the map I count 3 enemy "guns" - Two 76.2 and a 45mm AT. The end screen showed 3 enemy guns destroyed.

Gloating over the "Kills" stats after the game, however, I discovered the PzIII had 1 gun kill, a 50mm mortar had 2 gun kills, and the onther 50mm mortar had 1 gun kills. 1+2+1=4 guns.

So, whats up? A bug, or did, for example, or did those 50mm mortars simultaneously firing on each 76 share a kill?

I've got the last end-turn saved. Plus, as this was a demonstration/tutorial game for a friend, I've got saves for most of the previous turns, too.

Sorry if this has come up before, my search didn't turn up anything... Please, don't let this be in the manual! Err... if it is, it's my dog's fault! He's supposed to know this stuff.

[Cameroon]

Well, just to keep you from going crazy, I've seen these kinds of things, though rarely, before too. I haven't bothered to report them 'cause I figured it had to be a shared kill type thing.

Though, if it is being counted twice for points, then that could actually be a problem.

[Bullethead]

I've had this problem myself, and there's a related FOW problem as well. Here are 2 examples:

#1. A Grille and an on-board 81mm mortar are shooting at the same gun. Both are doing area fire because it's EFOW and the gun's position is marked by a star.

RESULTS: I knew the gun died that turn because the Grille landed 2 shells right on the star, so I wanted to see if a kill showed up. I was surprised when it did, because I was using EFOW and the gun's info box just said "gun?". IOW, nothing on the map indicated the gun was dead, just the Grille's kill list. Being curious about this, I check the mortar and it too had 1 gun kill. So I surrendered to see if there were 2 guns there and I'd gotten one I didn't know about. But there was only 1 dead gun.

#2. A lone Sturmtiger vs. a full battalion of infantry at the far end of a 1500m x 300m flat, totally open map. EFOW.

RESULTS: I didn't check the Sturmtiger's kills during the slaughter, but when the Russians surrendered on turn 4, it showed 6 gun kills. Problem is, there were only 4 guns in the whole battalion (4x57mm ATGs).

OK, forget the FOW issue for now. Where did the extra gun kills come from? I've only noticed this with guns, BTW, not grunts (not that I've counted enough of them to be conclusive), AFVs, or airplanes. Here's my theory....

Looking closely at the 4 dead guns in the Sturmtiger example, I noticed that with 2 of them, the crews were destroyed with the guns. That is, the dead guys were lying between the guns' trails and could not be clicked on separately from the gun--they were still part of the gun unit. OTOH, the other 2 crews were a few steps away from their guns and dead as separate entities.

So I think the problem is that gun crews are treated as guns for kill purposes, instead of infantry casualties. Or maybe as both--I didn't coun't all the dead guys to make sure. So 4 guns + 2 crews = 6.

This is definitely NOT the case with AFVs. I've blown up many a T70 with a Tiger, killing the whole crew, and only gotten 1 tank kill each time. Justs seems to be a gun problem.

[Tarquelne]

So I think the problem is that gun crews are treated as guns for kill purposes, instead of infantry casualties.

Ah, sounds likely. In my saved game none of the crews are still by their guns, but there is an Eliminated crew.

[Jon L]

I have also run into this case, but specifically only when a gun is abandoned, and subsequently knocked out. Much like firing on abandoned AFV's to brew them up, it appears that additional damage to guns can eventually KO them. In my experience this leads to the gun being counted on the kill sheet for the unit that forced the abandonment, as well as the unit that changed its status to KO'd.

Jon L

[Bullethead]

Originally posted by Staneth:

... it appears that additional damage to guns can eventually KO them. In my experience this leads to the gun being counted on the kill sheet for the unit that forced the abandonment, as well as the unit that changed its status to KO'd.

Jon L

Ah, good idea. This must be why I haven't seen this happen with AFVs. I haven't shot at them to finish them off. Makes more sense your way, with both guns and AFVs having the same problem, instead of my way where it's just guns.

[Mud]

I've seen this as well. Oh, and speaking of gun kills... Shouldn't the FOW lift on gun kills, just as it does for vehicles (e.g. listing "Flak 88" and not just "gun") when the battle is over? It seems a trifle odd that there's fine detail for AFV kills, but not for guns.

[Madmatt]

I have asked Charles to look into this issue.

If you have any end game saves which show this please send them to me but be sure to also include which issue you are reporting to me, in full. I often get emails with files attached which just say "Hey Matt, here are those files you asked about!" the problem is I ask for files all the time and there is no way for me to keep track of them all, who is sending me and what they are sending.

So please recap the exatc issue you are reporting!

Thanks!

Madmatt

[ October 30, 2002, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Madmatt ]

[Sigurd]

I encountered a different minor bug concerning Kill counts

*SPOILER*

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In the Maxdorf scenario, my Königstiger was awarded this in the kill screen :

2 T-34/85 M44s

3 T-34/85 M44s

I guess the first lines states T-34 belonging to a platoon, and he second one independent T-34. The -under the hood- internal modell could for that reason handle differently those T-34, and count them as different types.

I've got the saved game if BFC's interested in

[Sigurd]

Was this bug already known / going to be fixed in the patch ? or a new one?

Or is this not a bug?...