tactics against German Guns

[lavgunner]

What is the best approach when going against German tanks in the open battle field. They have such great ranges. Anyone of you tactical experts care to share? I know smoke would be helpful. But what if you don't have smoke.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Avoid 'em.

Regards

Jim R.

[109 Gustav]

First of all, do a search, because there's a lot of threads on tactics that go more in depth than I'm going to.

As allies, your main advantage is speed- your tanks are faster than German armor, and almost always have faster turrets. Dash from cover to cover to get around the flanks, hitting the enemy from the side. Get in close, again dashing between cover.

Don't get into a frontal duel in which both sides slug away at each other, because you will lose almost all the time.

[GenSplatton]

almost all the time

Otherwise known as "most of the time." Sorry, not trying to pick, but that phrase just sounded really odd.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by GenSplatton:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> almost all the time

Otherwise known as "most of the time." Sorry, not trying to pick, but that phrase just sounded really odd.</font>

[Herr Kruger]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GenSplatton:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> almost all the time

Otherwise known as "most of the time." Sorry, not trying to pick, but that phrase just sounded really odd.</font>

[109 Gustav]

Ok, let me rephrase myself:

Don't get into a frontal duel in which both sides slug away at each other, because the Allie's tendancy to lose is greater than 50%, based on a highly scientific study that I'm not going to bother to look up. Do a search.

[Leeo]

Egads, are you all raving semanticians?!

[edited to add "raving"]

[ April 14, 2002, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Leeo ]

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Leeo:

Egads, are you all raving semanticians?!

[edited to add "raving"]

You haven't seen nothing yet, buddy. Just you wait.

And that's Mister semantician to you!

Michael

[Monty's Double]

It's a bit like the difference between a criminal case and a civil one. Civil courts work on the balance of probabilities (ie "most of the time") whereas criminal courts require a case to be proven beyond reasonable doubt ("almost all the time"). A Sherman 75 facing a Panther would lose both ways, but a 76 would only lose on the balance of probabilities, not beyond reasonable doubt. Just like OJ.

Hopefully a lawyer will come along and explain how wrong I am then take away my house. Not that I'm bitter.

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by 109 Gustav:

As allies, your main advantage is speed- your tanks are faster than German armor, and almost always have faster turrets. Dash from cover to cover to get around the flanks, hitting the enemy from the side. Get in close, again dashing between cover.

Don't get into a frontal duel in which both sides slug away at each other, because you will lose almost all the time.

For US: Hellcats (55mph) M4A3 type Shermans (32mph), and M10TD (30mph)are fast w/ fast turrets. Jacksons have that plus the uber- 90mm gun. US 75mm doesn't have a prayer against sloped German armor except at point-blank range or with a lucky 1% "weak spot penetration." Even Stuarts can kill King Tigers with such a shot on a vision port or MG hole, etc. US 76mm is OK, but no guarantee vs. thick sloped armor, even with Tungsten since it performs poorly against ~50%+ sloped armor.

UK: Cromwells (40 or 32mph), Sherman III (30mph) and Wolverine (30mph) are the speediest, the rest are on par with German stuff, i.e. ~24mph for all tanks.

British tanks armed with the 17pdr (Firefly, Challenger, Achilles, Archer) can kill most German stuff head-on, esp. with "t" rounds, so they make good over-watch units while your Cromwells, Sherman III, etc. carefully head for the flanks. Smoke can help that. 17pdr is so strong due to great muzzle velocity of ~885m/s vs. ~750m/s for US 76mm and 619m/s for the 75mm.

Using shooters from two angles can help to both expose an easier-to-hit-AND-thinner-armor flank. Germans turrets are a great weakness to be exploited. You have only medium for Panzer IV, slow for Panther, King Tiger, very slow for Tiger I, and no turret for StuG, Hetzer, Jpz's, etc.

You can frustrate your opponent by having two tank sections hunt fwd and reverse back so that your 2nd group gets a free 1st shot on the enemy flank before they can turn around. If they're buttoned-up, so much the better- they might not see your flanking section at all. Sharpshooters, MGs, or in worse casse, Mortars will button 'em up.

[ April 15, 2002, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ]

[Silvio Manuel]

lavgunner,

Try the "Tips and Tactics" section, and find the Anthology of Useful Posts (esp. for new players). Its sort of an unofficial tactics guide, with plenty of Armor Combat info, along with just about anything else.

[jgdpzr]

Well said, Silvio. So much so, I feel a little guilty about putting out one minor correction to your post and that is the fact that the M10 and Wolverine have "very slow" turrets. In reality, this was because of the bulky nature of the ported naval gun they mounted. If you ever have occasion to look at the gun on one of the vehicles, you will immediately note how thick the gun barrel is. This necessitated the huge counterweights at the back of the turret. This "pole balanced" scheme made the turret difficult and slow to traverse. It was especially bad on slopes.

Edit:Seems like I remember reading that the weight seen near the end of the gun on the Achilles was mounted to counterbalance the weights initially meant to counterbalance the naval gun of the Wolverine. I guess it was just easier to keep those weights (and consequently the poorly balanced turret) than redesign the turret when they converted it to mount the 17 pounder.

[ April 15, 2002, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: jgdpzr ]