Wol Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 I cannot find the T-50s in the game, I was setting up a Finnish scenario and intended to use them aginst those dastardly Finns. I take it that they are not in the game, but might be in the patch (all 63 of them)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 T-50? is there bug in this thread the title is now T-50 -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 oh Ok Then where did the Volga Operation Thread go? the forum just lost the thread about the computer that crashes in the Volga Operation which is reported to require 10-20 minutes to crunch the turn even with a FAST machine :confused: confused -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wol Posted October 12, 2002 Author Share Posted October 12, 2002 T-50??? where are/will you be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishu Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 Finns stole the T-50's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 What is the deal w/ Finns and the swastikas...were they Nazis- (I didn't think so :confused: ). Were they Allied with Germany...since they were *both* fighting the Soviets? Thanks, SM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 Originally posted by Silvio Manuel: What is the deal w/ Finns and the swastikas...were they Nazis- (I didn't think so :confused: ). Were they Allied with Germany...since they were *both* fighting the Soviets? Thanks, SMThey were allied with germany, but that has nothing to do with the Swastika. It was the national symbol, adopted from some german count who saved the country when it was about to be swept a way by a snowstorm (or something like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 Well, to make the story short, Finnish army started using the swastika theme in some form in 1918, during the civil war. Adolf got it later, probably from somewhere else. They are not the same, they do look different. Think about the star of U.S. Army and of Red Army. Both are stars, both come from somewhere else, both actually are very different in design. To a total stranger it wouldn't be obvious, of course. More about Finnish swastikas: the one in that picture is the so-called Freedom Cross (seen in tanks and many decorations), recognisable from the short "hooks". In Finnish airplanes there is the von Rosen's cross, which is in measures similar to Nazi swastika, but Nazi swastika is tilted 45 degrees. Both von Rosen's cross and Freedom Cross are straight. Despite this, of course between 1941-44 Finland was dependant on Germany, and so during that time it may have been a good idea to use the swastika theme more. As to whether they were allied with Germany, well yes. Although an official alliance was signed only in 1944 (in order for Finns to get important supplies), and even then the document wasn't "legitimate" and was therefore broken when seen convenient. Also, Finland was in "war" against UK, Canada, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand since December 6th 1941, but not USA. Since autumn 1944 Finland was in war against Germany until the very end. Call that some diplomacy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 Originally posted by Foxbat: It was the national symbol, adopted from some german count who saved the country when it was about to be swept a way by a snowstorm (or something like that). Well, it was actually a Swedish count, Erich von Rosen, who donated the first airplane to the Finnish white army during the Finnish civil war of 1918. The whites won the war, and the swastika emblem became a symbol used by the Finnish airforces until the end of second world war. Von Rosen, btw., got fined when he returned to Sweden, because he had illegaly exported the aircraft to a war-going country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 If you ignore the details I was pretty close Originally posted by Sergei: Von Rosen, btw., got fined when he returned to Sweden, because he had illegaly exported the aircraft to a war-going country.Ouch, neutral to a fault them Swedes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 Thanks for the info folks. And now about that T-50... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wol Posted October 13, 2002 Author Share Posted October 13, 2002 That Finnish T-50, like all but one photo of T-50s that I have (and I can source only 4 different ones) has applique armour added all over (except the finns have removed some on their vehicle). Note the commader's cupola, an excellent light tank. BTW 1) All source that I have (Zaloga various but I can give chapter & verse if you like),Milsom, Grove, Grandsen all list the T-26 m37 and 39 (aka T-26s) as having 25 mm bow armour, or bow and Turret armour (m39). Only Russian battlefied shows it as 15mm. Does someone have a definitive answer? In the game, all T-26 m37 & 39 are listed as having 15 mm armour. 2) Zaloga lists BT-7A as carrying 50 rounds, you list 35 3) OT-133 should have turret offset to Right as on OT-134 4) all pictures I have of T-26E have added armour on turret and hull front and sides, and this is consistent with all other data I have have from Zaloga et al. You show it as having only additional front armour. 5) why don't the late model BT-7/Bt-7m have connical turrets? Can you show me the error of my ways oh BTS Wol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishu Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Wol, Wait till the next patch.. not all the models were put in, because those didn't fit on single CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wol Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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