German Tactics

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by Andreas:

But what is the size of your company, if your division reported 16 or so runners on the day they had to attack? As happened during Manstein's counter offensive in the Donbas in the southern sector. I think there was one instance where the combined attack strength of two Panzer divisions was 24 runners or some such.[/QB]

Sorry, Andreas, maybe a dumb question, but what do you mean with "runners"? :confused:

BTW: Germany is in the WC Final!!!

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Ozzy:

Sorry, Andreas, maybe a dumb question, but what do you mean with "runners"? :confused:

BTW: Germany is in the WC Final!!!

Hehe, yes we are.

'Runners' are tanks that 'run' into battle on that day, as opposed to hanging around in workshops being repainted, captured behind the Red Army lines, or being figments of Adolf's imagination. Almost by definition the number of runners will be smaller than that of your established paper strength.

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by Andreas:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ozzy:

Sorry, Andreas, maybe a dumb question, but what do you mean with "runners"? :confused:

BTW: Germany is in the WC Final!!!

Hehe, yes we are.

'Runners' are tanks that 'run' into battle on that day, as opposed to hanging around in workshops being repainted, captured behind the Red Army lines, or being figments of Adolf's imagination. Almost by definition the number of runners will be smaller than that of your established paper strength. </font>

[JasonC]

To Brian - Thanks for the correction. The French one was designated the Pak 181 (f) in German service. It was more powerful than the Czech, but not available as early obviously. They mostly remained in France as towed guns.

You are also right that the 25mm was the main ATG, with 3000 of them fielded. But I don't know about not many of the 47mm, because they fielded 1200 of those. There were also another 1000 25mm AA guns, useful against the lightly armored German early war types. And of course every serious field gun the French had (div arty, not infantry guns) was also effective.

Not counting the tube artillery, there were therefore 2 French ATGs per German AFV, and a 47mm ATG for every 37mm gun or larger German AFV. The idea some have (not you Brian, I realise) that they were unarmed in this respect is simply false.

The reason ATGs even in serious numbers do not do the job is that their immobility forces them to be penny-packeted along the line. A company has one battery of the things. Then it gets attacked by a tank battalion with artillery support. 4-6 guns cannot accomplish much against massing. What was needed is the ability to rapidly form gun-fronts along important avenues of attack - the "PAK front" idea.

Nobody had figured that out yet. But some of the French did (e.g. in the Mech divisions), and Rommel did, in the course of the campaign. (In a way relying on WW I experience with tanks, to a degree. Field artillery in a direct fire role had worked then). But it was not a widely known matter of doctrine. It was not equipment - they had plenty that was perfectly capable - it was how to use it.