Arty and the ground type it impacts: A question

[TeAcH]

Dear BTS, or anyone in the know,

In CMBB, I was wondering if the type of ground and or ground conditions had any effect on the amount of damage (i.e. blast damage) of impacting artillery rounds?

Does the same arty round that impacts into say mud have less of an effect than say when the same round hits rough or cement? Would the mud suck the round down further into the earth and lessen the radius (or something like that)?

Thanks,

TeAcH

[ November 25, 2002, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: TeAcH ]

[offtaskagain]

IRL snow definitely has a dampening effect on artillery. One account from the east front I've read stated that mortar rounds were almost useless in heavy snow. I think Madmatt said sometime that this effect is modelled in CM.

[omni]

Mortar rounds can be timed to explode before Impact can't they? So they explode in mid air?

[ November 25, 2002, 03:12 AM: Message edited by: omni ]

[Sigurd]

pz42,

true, I clearly remember having read a madmatt's post explaining the HE blast are weakened in snow, in CM as in RL

omni,

I think u can only achieve this result (rounds exploding in mid air) with varying time fuses (in CM the xx mm VT artillery spotter)

[dragoon19]

81mm mortars shells don´t have a time fuse at least not the ones I have worked with. What you do instead is to attach a metal 'stick' about 20cm long to the front of the grenade. In effect the granade then explodes 20cm above ground. The side effect of this little trick is that it makes the max range of the morter granade shorter and more influenced by wind factors. Still in heavy snow or very soft ground the blast from a 81mm is often very much below what you would expect.

Dragoon19

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by dragoon19:

81mm mortars shells don´t have a time fuse at least not the ones I have worked with. What you do instead is to attach a metal 'stick' about 20cm long to the front of the grenade. In effect the granade then explodes 20cm above ground. The side effect of this little trick is that it makes the max range of the morter granade shorter and more influenced by wind factors. Still in heavy snow or very soft ground the blast from a 81mm is often very much below what you would expect.

Dragoon19

Did any WW2 vintage mortars actually use stick fuzes? I've seen a study on them for the British 3-inch (81mm) mortar, but I don't think they were adopted.

The only method of obtaining airburts from WW2 mortars I'm aware of is the "bouncing bomb" technique used in the Wurfgranate 39 bomb for the German 8cm (81mm) sGrW 34. When the bomb landed, a small propelling charge launched the bursting charge back into the air before it detonated.

All the best,

John.

[ November 25, 2002, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: John D Salt ]

[dragoon19]

My comment is not based on actual use or knowledge of WWII mortars, but rather on experience with a 'modern' 81mm and how it is currently used in the Danish Army. However, the use of stick fuses just seem to be such a practical low-tech way of dealing with the problem of soft ground and the use of mortar fire that I assumed it was WWII idea or maybe even WWI - but I could be wrong as your comment suggests. :cool:

Best regards

Dragoon19

[Michael Emrys]

I haven't heard of extended fuses on mortar bombs in WW II, but I believe the Germans at least put them on aerial bombs.

Michael

[Eden Smallwood]

My troops got caught by MG trying to advance over ice. I really had to wince- it looked really painful.

Not just arty, but every bit o' lead must have hurt "more" for troops on ice- ricochets that lose almost no energy...? Is it so, in RL and/or CM?

Eden

[TeAcH]

Yeah I read in a book by Bill Manchester (I think that was his name) about Marine combat in the pacific and how they dreaded arty hitting the flat rocks as opposed to mud because the flying rock chunks greatly enhanced the damage to the troops. I would sure like to know for sure it this is in CMBB.

Anyone? Bueller?