A draw in Ardennes- Team Desobry01, What the heck!? Gives?

[Jack Trap]

I played the operation: Ardennes-Team Desobry01 from the American side against the computer with the computer set at the #2 experience level.

Many tanks destroyed but I hold the town throughout all six battles. The enemy never sets foot in the town, infact on the sixth battle they did not even make an attempt.

OK so I'm a bad mo-fo right?! I held the town as ordered, but in the summary screen the game is scored as a draw?!?!?!

Am I missing something here? Is there a specific exit point that I am supposed to guard. If my losses were high does that not get seriously offset by the fact the I held the town completely.

I need some pointers here :confused:

[Kingfish]

How badly mauled are your forces? You mentioned that many of your tanks are destroyed, perhaps your losses were so severe that a draw was declared.

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Kingfish ]

[Jack Trap]

Its was pretty bloody. I (at the end) hadone tank and one utility car still functional, but I had several dozenfooted units, including 3 bazookas, 3 mortars and 5 machine guns. I was in no position for a strong offensive, but could have held the town against the onslaught expected on the last night (that never came).

I think I know where you are going though. If I suffered severe losses BUT HELD THE TOWN, would that not constitue a minor voctory? In the breifing it states specifically not to withdraw, with no notes about fource preservation.

I understand that a point system is in play, does anyone the point system in terms of fulfilling the mission goal versus losses?

[Kingfish]

Another thing to consider is the location (and strength) of enemy units when the game ends. The original version of Team Desorby used to end prematurely if German units were able to flank the town, even though the Americans were in complete control. The newer versions play all the way thru, but probably still take into account the final deployments when it tallies the score.

[CombinedArms]

The other thing to consider is that this is a DESTROY operation--that means that the only thing that actually counts is comparative casualty totals. Holding the town as such actually has no value in terms of victory points, despite the briefing. Note that there are no VL flags in operations. In advance or assault operations the defender is trying to prevent the attacker from reaching the far end of the board--which usually recedes as the attacker advances, but in this operation there is a single comparatively short map and all that matters is kill totals.

I expect that author Wild Bill Wilder reset Team Desobry as a Destroy operation because it's a short board and in an earlier version Allied players were losing when the Axis snuck a few units down to the end of the board.

In general, operations have their own set of rules and expectations--very different from individual scenarios-- and it's important to know what kind of operation you're playing. Usually it's right at the top of the briefing (Destroy, Attack, Assault) but if you can't find it there you can look at the parameters page in scenario edit mode.

[Jack Trap]

Got it. It infact does say "Destroy Mission" right at the top of the briefing.

The next time I play this operation I will employ guerrilla tactics as opposed to front tactics.

Perhas the best move I did in the last game was to send out a lone platoon out into the northern forrest at night, I was hoping to draw attacking resources away from a weak front. Instead of resistance I found three trucks in a field unguarded. To my satisfaction all three were left to burn and the platoon was chased back into the forrest by a panzer rerouted for the city fighting.

[Wild Bill Wilder]

Your question is well taken, Jack, and I understand your frustration.

Here is what happened. The first version was based on keeping the Germans from advancing off the map.

Most players could not grasp the fact that the Germans were flanking the town and reaching the map edge either on the right or left.

Some cried "Foul." So I redesigned it so that the Germans would be intent on killing Team Desobry. Hence it became a destroy mission.

And there is the problem. You did defend the town. You kept the Germans from taking it.

In that sense historically you have a major victory. The orders were to hold at all costs.

So tactically you did not do well. Strategically, you did magnificently. Even if the game won't do it, just pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

I wish the automated scorekeeper would do the aame.

If you ever want to try the older version, I'll send it to you. E-Mail me.

Wild Bill