Tarquelne Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 I tried a couple of things out: German LMG in patch of woods (1 "tile"). Soviet platoon (rifle/LMG squads) ~150m away in larger woods. Very little degredation in the LOS between G. and S. units. EFOW on. G. LMG starts firing at units to the left of the S. platoon, about 100-200m away. S. platoon is not moving, not hidden, not being fired on, Fit, Regular or Crack and facing toward the G. LMG. LMG appears on the Russian map about 30sec. into turn 1 or beginning of turn 2. At the end of turn 3 or 4 no units in the S. platoon have fired at the LMG. However, if manually targeted all will fire until the LMG lies prone. (Something I thought odd, though: Several times a tank (BT5) was placed about 250m away from the LMG, on the same line of fire the LMG was using (ie, the units the LMG was attacker were in between the tank and the LMG.) The tank immedietly opened fire.) However, if a covered arc is used the S. units are far more prone to fire. 3 of the 4 squads in the platoon were given cover arcs. One arc was just large enough to take in the LMG's position. One was a 90 degree. arc out to 250m centered on the LGM's position. The third was a 3000m 180 degree arc with the center at least 60 degrees from the LMG position. When the arcs are used the three squads with arcs (and only those squads) open fire very quickly, and like manually targetted units they fire untill the LMG lies prone. (They manually targetted units might be more persistent over several turns, I'm not sure.) It didn't seem to matter how large the arcs were - each squad fired at about the same time as the others, and the all used the same amount of ammo. Even a 3000m, 180 degree CA vastly improves a squad's spotting abilities. (Yes, I am calling the difference between firing as-soon-as-enemy-spotted and not firing for 3 or more turns "vast".) Given the above, troops seem to be spending too much time trying to see through copses of woods 5000m away and not enough checking out why their comrades 100m away keep screaming... either that, or binocs and Long Ears are issued when the cover arc command is given and taken away afterwords, take your pick. [ November 20, 2002, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: Tarqulene ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Hmm. Interesting. I have four Russian squads in the upstairs of some bldgs with the enemy around 200-240m away. The Soviets all have cover arcs to the Germans, but only two squads fire. After being told that the TacAI is now stingier with wasting ammo, I thought perhaps it figured they were a bit too far away to shoot at. Sometimes I just don't get cover arcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted November 21, 2002 Author Share Posted November 21, 2002 After being told that the TacAI is now stingier with wasting ammo, I can see that giving a unit a cover arc might/should make it more willing to fire. I kinda hope that's not the explaination though... or is 150m too far for a LMG-equipped squad to deliver suppressive fire? [ November 20, 2002, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Tarqulene ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Tarq, very interesting and thanks for taking the time to do it. Did you happen to try different ranges and types of cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted November 21, 2002 Author Share Posted November 21, 2002 Originally posted by Dirtweasle: [QB]Tarq, very interesting and thanks for taking the time to do it. Did you happen to try different ranges and types of cover?Nope! And I only ran each "test" a few times, so "the time to do it" wasn't much. However, I did just fire it up again to make sure the fire from the S. infantry was actually doing some good. It was: the S. fire was interrupting the LMG's fire, and actually drove it off once. The squads weren't just wasting ammo. (re: recent comments in the big ol' "debate" thread on TacAI ammo conservation.) I will probably do more tests if someone doesn't come along with an explaination for why the cover-arc using units are so much more effective. I'd much rather set arcs to limit firing, not to motivate units to fire. Hopefully my test happens to have encompassed an unusual set of circumstances. [ November 21, 2002, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Tarqulene ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted November 21, 2002 Author Share Posted November 21, 2002 In case you're following this thread and not the greate "debate" thread (which seems NOT to be the case).... I posted a version of the first message above on the "debate" thread and got some answers. The essential issue is probably "willingness" to fire. Units with a cover arc _are_ more willing to fire than units without one. So if you have a unit you want to supply covering fire give it a Covering Arc unless you're worried about targets behind it - the CA should prime it and make it ready to go. There are hotkeys that can help quickly set up big cover arcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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